Octopus Overlords

FWIW, I'm used to working out with my heart rate in the zone 3/4 range up into the zone 5 (usually 130-155 range, occasionally pushing toward 170, then slowing it back down) for an hour+ at a time, and I crash at about an hour and a half at that pace.

Blackhawk wrote:in a town where people don't run.

I'm also very shy and introverted and the one thing that helped me was keeping in mind that anybody driving past me or watching from their porch stoop was sitting on their ass while I was actually out there getting stronger.

In one of the Coach Erin workouts she reminds you that, "nobody's watching you" which made me laugh, as it was a bit of proof that all beginner runners go through the same anxiety.

In the 10 years or so I've been running, I've only had one incident where anyone said anything mean to me (it was a car full of high school kids). I just flipped them off and kept running. I think by and large most people don't want to tangle with someone who is actively working out because there's a decent chance that person can either kick their ass or at least outrun them.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:04 pm I will think about Runkeeper. I'm trying to avoid over-investing until I'm certain I'll take full advantage of it. I have a habit of getting enthusiastic, spending, and then not following through.

There's a free version of Runkeeper that provides a ton of great tracking functionality. I used that free version for the first 4 months, and only recently switched over to the Pro version because I wanted some of the advanced metrics and comparison tools. Pro version is a "nice to have" that you may want down the road at some point, but is definitely not a "need to have" to get started.

I am really self-conscious to begin with, and the idea of jiggling my lard down the street is a little intimidating in a town where people don't run. Every couple of years I'll see someone run by every couple of days for a couple of weeks. Other than that? Nada. It does help that I'm actually lighter than I have been in 20 years, and probably in better shape than I have been in 30 - possibly ever. I just wish I hadn't waited until I was 48 to do it.

I had the same self-conscious concern when I first started, but it has honestly not crossed my mind once after the first week. My paradigm has changed significantly when I see people running as well. I used to think "dang, that person runs slow" but that has totally switched to "good for them for being out there!"

The only time I've ever been self-conscious was on an early run where I thought I was doing pretty good...until two elderly ladies came cruising right past me while having a pleasant, normal conversation. Neither was even winded in the least, and here I was gasping like a landed fish. Made me realize that I still had a really long way to go.

If I ever see them again, I'm gonna sprint past them at full speed.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:22 pm The only time I've ever been self-conscious was on an early run where I thought I was doing pretty good...until two elderly ladies came cruising right past me while having a pleasant, normal conversation. Neither was even winded in the least, and here I was gasping like a landed fish. Made me realize that I still had a really long way to go.

On your left!

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:21 pm

Blackhawk wrote:in a town where people don't run.

I'm also very shy and introverted and the one thing that helped me was keeping in mind that anybody driving past me or watching from their porch stoop was sitting on their ass while I was actually out there getting stronger.

In one of the Coach Erin workouts she reminds you that, "nobody's watching you" which made me laugh, as it was a bit of proof that all beginner runners go through the same anxiety.

I can confirm the "nobody's watching you" thing. I've been hit by a car and almost hit by a deer on two different occasions. Either no one is watching or I'm invisible when I run! (And I wear a blinking vest!! Huh - appears to be on sale at the moment.)

Late last week, we had very nice, dry weather in our area and I had my best runs in nearly 2 years. On Saturday, I actually managed to break 9:00/mile - I was very pleased. Someone had asked earlier how often they should push themselves. I am a very bad guide, but I can show you what the effect of temperature and too much/too fast running is.

Below is my last week of runs.



The temps for those days were (bottom to top)

• Aug 30 - 70F
• Aug 31 - 73F
• Sep 02 - 70F
• Sep 03 - 61F
• Sep 04 - 60F
• Sep 05 - 61F
• Sep 06 - 71F
• Sep 07 - 67F

The weather felt so good on Saturday that I really pushed to see what I could do in terms of speed (the 8 mile run). I went on a course with a hill I don't think I've ever made it to the top of without walking and managed not to stop (although I did slow down to about 10:45min/mile - but kept my legs churning). It was great. The next day saw a bit of a hit with a slight slow down but on a longer course. The real hit came on Monday when I spent a lot of the last 3 miles walking - it was painful. This morning I did better, but it's still going to likely be the weekend before I get my legs back under me.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 1:00 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:21 pm

Blackhawk wrote:in a town where people don't run.

I'm also very shy and introverted and the one thing that helped me was keeping in mind that anybody driving past me or watching from their porch stoop was sitting on their ass while I was actually out there getting stronger.

In one of the Coach Erin workouts she reminds you that, "nobody's watching you" which made me laugh, as it was a bit of proof that all beginner runners go through the same anxiety.

I can confirm the "nobody's watching you" thing. I've been hit by a car and almost hit by a deer on two different occasions. Either no one is watching or I'm invisible when I run! (And I wear a blinking vest!! Huh - appears to be on sale at the moment.)

My wife has that vest. You can see it from miles away. Literally. It's bright enough to light your way at night. I think they are liquidating version 1 and will only be selling version 2 which is brighter and has rechargeable batteries. If they had my size I'd order one of the v1s since they are great as is.

One advantage I have here is that side road traffic is practically non-existent I could probably lay down on most of the side roads and take a nap.

My wife also has one of those vests (v2), and the one for our dog too. They're crazy bright, but she also says that people still don't seem to pay attention at night. I don't run in the dark much lately, but when I do, I have a headlamp with a ridiculously bright blinking red light on the back.

I should probably get a light or a vest at some point. I typically do my runs right at sunrise, so while it's not dark dark, visibility is still a bit suspect. It's going to get darker in the mornings as winter approaches, so I need to get something.

I haven't yet bothered because my runs are through neighborhoods with very little traffic and I run entirely on sidewalks. I only have to cross a couple streets, and and won't do so if there's a car anywhere in sight. Still...better safe than sorry.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Sep 08, 2021 11:45 am I should probably get a light or a vest at some point. I typically do my runs right at sunrise, so while it's not dark dark, visibility is still a bit suspect. It's going to get darker in the mornings as winter approaches, so I need to get something.

I haven't yet bothered because my runs are through neighborhoods with very little traffic and I run entirely on sidewalks. I only have to cross a couple streets, and and won't do so if there's a car anywhere in sight. Still...better safe than sorry.

I got hit crossing the driveway of a church parking lot. I thought I made eye contact with the driver a good 20 yards before passing in front of her and she never saw me even with the vest. People coming out of their own driveways are probably as inattentive.

My running days while working from home were Mon-Tues and Thurs-Fri. Now that I have to go into the office Tues-Thur I decided to try a new schedule: running from Friday to Monday, starting with this past weekend. It's a little tough, since I can't really run in the mornings on the weekends and still do the family weekend activities. So Saturday I ran in the afternoon in 80 deg weather, and Sunday I skipped entirely because it was 88 by the time I could run. So I made up for it by doing 10k today.

Still trying to find a nice running schedule so I can make an average of 25 km/week.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 12:04 pm I will think about Runkeeper. I'm trying to avoid over-investing until I'm certain I'll take full advantage of it. I have a habit of getting enthusiastic, spending, and then not following through.

I am really self-conscious to begin with, and the idea of jiggling my lard down the street is a little intimidating in a town where people don't run. Every couple of years I'll see someone run by every couple of days for a couple of weeks. Other than that? Nada. It does help that I'm actually lighter than I have been in 20 years, and probably in better shape than I have been in 30 - possibly ever. I just wish I hadn't waited until I was 48 to do it.

Every time you start feeling self-conscious, just remember that anyone who is sitting around watching you run is likely not running themselves. What could be more bad ass than being the guy who runs in a town full of people who don't run? Go for it!!!

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:03 pm I'm a little worried that if I remove the performance aspect, my interest will wane. I'm a bit of a metrics person by nature, and being able to see numbers go up (or down) has been very motivating for me. I've known all along that I'll hit a plateau at some point where I'm not seeing significant improvement on a weekly basis, and I think I'm starting to see some of that. Last week was the first week since I started where my per mile time was worse than the previous week. That caused me to push it probably a little harder than I should have, and my legs were really paying for it on Sunday.

Here's the thing: It's tempting to push harder when you start to hit that plateau, but you actually want to do exactly the opposite. It's counterintuitive, but what you probably need to do is back off. And not just a little. Back off a lot. The coach I'm listening to emphasizes that running slow and easy isn't actually easy: It takes a lot of effort and discipline to back off and shift into a much slower gear. It's tough both mentally and physically. For me, there's an internal voice that I've had to really work to quiet that would always be telling me that if I wasn't pushing it and giving it my all every day, I was wasting my time and dialing it in. There's admittedly also an ego thing, as I'm running along at a pace barely above a walk getting passed by mothers with strollers. But it's worth it. I feel better on nearly every run, and on my hard runs, my results are much improved over where they were.

I think the 80% goal for easy runs is probably arbitrary, but you definitely should experiment with mixing in some really slow, easy runs.

And if you're a metrics person, I'm guessing you'll start to see a big change in your performance on the days when you push yourself. Good luck!

Now that our daughter is preschool a couple of hours every morning, we have a brief window of no kids. Wife and I resolved to use that time doing things we can't do with kids around...such as running. Or biking. So far, we went biking once, I went biking another time, and we went running no times. Changing routines is hard.

Kurth wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:34 pm Here's the thing: It's tempting to push harder when you start to hit that plateau, but you actually want to do exactly the opposite. It's counterintuitive, but what you probably need to do is back off. And not just a little. Back off a lot. The coach I'm listening to emphasizes that running slow and easy isn't actually easy: It takes a lot of effort and discipline to back off and shift into a much slower gear. It's tough both mentally and physically. For me, there's an internal voice that I've had to really work to quiet that would always be telling me that if I wasn't pushing it and giving it my all every day, I was wasting my time and dialing it in. There's admittedly also an ego thing, as I'm running along at a pace barely above a walk getting passed by mothers with strollers. But it's worth it. I feel better on nearly every run, and on my hard runs, my results are much improved over where they were.

I think the 80% goal for easy runs is probably arbitrary, but you definitely should experiment with mixing in some really slow, easy runs.

And if you're a metrics person, I'm guessing you'll start to see a big change in your performance on the days when you push yourself. Good luck!

Holy Moly, this actually works! This week I did two easy runs on Tuesday and Thursday - just 2km jogs in the morning. Then today I did my normal 6km run. Initially, I was wheezing really hard and thought "Oh man, what am I doing wrong?" Then towards the end of the run I realized I was hitting my 6km marker much earlier in my running playlist, so I kept going until I hit the song that usually ended my run. Took a look at Strava after the run and found that this was one of my fastest average times @7:22 minutes/km.

I'm finding that my biggest predictor of a good run is simply when I go.

If I can run between 7-8am, I almost always have an much better time regardless of the distance. I typically average between 9:50-10:05/mile when running at that time. It's my sweet spot but unfortunately only happens on weekends, as I generally start work at 7am.

On most weekday mornings, I have to start my run between 5:30-6:00 am. That start time typically sees me running at a 10:15-10:30/mile pace, mainly because my body simply isn't really awake yet and it takes a bit to get going. Thankfully, that pace has been slowly improving over time. It's been averaging much closer to 10:15/mile over the past month, and I've only gone over 10:30/mile once in 6 weeks.

So I guess that I'm sort of naturally doing the "easy" runs on weekdays with "performance" runs on weekends. I hadn't really been thinking of it that way, but my overall times seem to be bearing that out.

My new 2021 goal is to hit 410 miles on the year. I'm currently at 285, so that would require an average of 9 miles/week for the rest of the year (14 weeks). As long as I don't miss any time, that should be very doable as I typically do a 2.5 mile loop 3-4 times/week, with a 5K on weekends. Needless to say, I'm definitely not a distance guy like y'all are.

Next year, I think I'm going to shoot for 500 miles.

I've started back training for a "Run from Michael Myers" Virtual 5K at the end of October. I've never actually paid money for a virtual 5K before, but it's officially licensed, a portion of proceeds goes to charity, and the T-shirt and medal are super cool.

I've found that my motivation plummets if I don't have a race to look forward to, and I'm tired of the constant bouncing up and down between getting up to 5K conditioning, then losing it all and having to start over. With COVID canceling a lot of physical 5Ks, I'm thinking of maybe always having a virtual one signed up in my back pocket to keep me on track. That motivation alone would be worth the $30 or $40 to me.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Mon Sep 13, 2021 7:35 pm Now that our daughter is preschool a couple of hours every morning, we have a brief window of no kids. Wife and I resolved to use that time doing things we can't do with kids around...such as running. Or biking. So far, we went biking once, I went biking another time, and we went running no times. Changing routines is hard.

Try the Two minute rule.

The two minute rule is the one that states food is still okay if dropped into the cat box for under 2 minutes, right?

And now for something completely different, or 'Dear Penthouse, I never thought it could happen to me . . '

For anyone who runs at dusk or dawn (or I guess in between).

I was out running this morning, like every morning, and halfway through my run about 5:30am, on a street I run every day something hits me on the right side, upper-back part of my head. It felt like someone threw a grapefruit at me really hard. It didn't knock me down, but it definitely moved my head. I've been hit by bats, large moths, in the evening hours (mainly in South America), but this was definitely larger.

I looked around but didn’t see anything, kept running, then something hit the left side of my neck. I spun quickly enough to see a large bird fly into the trees.

I started slowly running while looking around, and saw an owl fly and land on a light post – then as I got under the light post and as I was facing it, the owl literally swooped down toward me – I was yelling and waving my arms so it didn’t strike again, but I got the heck out of there after that. That kind of sucked, because It was nice and cool this morning and I was planning on doing a longer run (only got 6 miles in)

I am a Biologist (I work at a museum), and am not prone to hyperbole. All I could figure was it was an owl (juvenile) marking its territory (it is way too late for nesting season - Owls will defend nesting sites the same way). I wrote to our Ornithologist, and he confirmed that is most likely what it was, but he had only heard of 2 other instances, and not much was known about them going after people.

I was sure it was a Barred owl, and not a great horned - everything is pretty big when it is flying at you and you are being attacked – but I have only heard Barred owls calling in the area in all the years I have lived here. We have a lot in the area.

It actually was scary, and it took a chunk out of my scalp. I had never been stalked by an animal before. Now I understand when people are walking somewhere in nature and say they could feel something stalking them (like a wolf or mountain lion). It is unnerving.

When you see nature shows about them being silent (they have a special adaptation on the front edge of their wings that acts like a silencer), it is silent. never heard it coming either time it struck me.

It brought to mind the Peterson case (a guy in Durham, NC) who killed his wife and claimed an owl attacked her and she fell down the stairs). When I first started here in 2007, the lawyer brought a single feather into the public space where I worked and wanted me to confirm it was an owl feather. I sent him to the ornithologist because I could not confirm it. It turns out it was from a waterfowl. The owl thing in that legal case was total horseshit.

This happens in the Pacific NW, at least from what gets into the sensationalist news stories, but normally it is on trails not in the city.

Anyway, I never would have thought it was real until it happened to me. At least it wasn't a rabid fox or some other mammal (those do attack a lot of people around here).

So be careful out there.

Wow that's an awesome story! Not that it was awesome you got attacked, just neat in a WTF way. (By the way, The Staircase, which is that Peterson documentary is awesome. Even though it's told from the defense point of view, that guy comes across guilty as hell.)

I just finished Week 2 of my 5K training for the Halloween Virtual 5K and the weather is absolutely gorgeous here. Mid-70s and sunny, so I've had some really good runs. I can already feel that I'm going to get back into condition fairly quick - the first two weeks were a breeze. Again my only real obstacle is that this neighborhood loop is only 2 miles, and that's if you run down every cul-de-sac. I may have to start doing some longer runs out at the park on the weekends.

That is an interesting story. Hopefully not too much of your skin was lost. My wife would have freaked out. She hates birds/bats flying around her head. Also hummingbirds.
I have been attacked while biking by Red Winged Blackbirds. I no longer ride that route but it happened several times over the course of a few years and always in early spring. They are known for attacking pretty much anything that gets close to their nest. Nasty little buggers. At least I had a helmet so no skin lost. Just the tap tap tap of their beak on the helmet.

Yes YK it was awesome this morning. On my walk I actually wore a long sleeve shirt over my T-Shirt! Delightful! Of course it will be cold as shit before we know it. Fall and Spring are the incredible shrinking seasons.

Well...shit.

I volunteered to help coach the goalies at Little B 12.6's soccer practice on Monday afternoon. My left ankle started getting a little bit sore when I went to bed yesterday. When I woke up this morning it was a little more sore, but I figured that going out on my run would maybe help to loosen it up. Got through the run just fine, but it has since swollen up like crazy and I now can barely walk.

Was really hoping I could get through the rest of the year without any weird injuries, but this one may need a few days off. Bah

So, early AM cold weather runs are...not fun.

Temperature when I started my last two runs has been 28 degrees, and my body just does not want to function at that temp at that hour (5:30am). The first mile feels like I'm running through mud with lead in my shoes.

Last two days have my two worst runs in the past 6 weeks.

So what do you wear when it's that cold?

This Spring was the first time I ran in those temps. I used tights and a pair of shorts over them. I found it insufficient for runs over 45 minutes as important bits got so cold they ached. I'm still not comfortable going back to the gym and so need a better plan for this winter.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 4:40 pm So what do you wear when it's that cold?

Tights with shorts over them. One of these long sleeve shirts with this jacket over it. Knit hat and gloves.

I didn't feel cold, but just could not get my legs to move much faster than a shuffle. Also have a harder time breathing. I'm a bit of a wheezer anyways, and the cold just seems to make it worse.

And 28 is just late fall temps...winter will get down into the teens or single digits most mornings. Hoping my body will acclimate and things will improve.

The last race I ran had a high temp of 28. I wore my biking tights (full leg) and a thermal jersey.

I trained for a half-marathon in Phoenix in single-digit temps, wearing layers of sweats. Race day started in the mid-30's, and I arrived wearing shorts and a t-shirt...training in those frigid temps made this weather seem pleasant. I had a great race that day, and I didn't have to discard excess clothing like most of the runners.

My insane ultrarunner brother-in-law finished the Moab 240 race earlier in the week. That's a 240.3 mile trail run through the desert and mountains of Moab, Utah that he finished in 3d6h39m, coming in 17th place. Two friends who went with him finished as well, although they were both more than 24h behavior him. That's an absolutely insane accomplishment that I can't even fathom, but it's the kind of thing that he does for "fun" and the feeling of accomplishment all the time (or at least for one big race each year).

Do they sleep during that time, or are they talking to trees when they cross the finish line?

disarm wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 5:21 pm My insane ultrarunner brother-in-law finished the Moab 240 race earlier in the week. That's a 240.3 mile trail run through the desert and mountains of Moab, Utah that he finished in 3d6h39m, coming in 17th place. Two friends who went with him finished as well, although they were both more than 24h behavior him. That's an absolutely insane accomplishment that I can't even fathom, but it's the kind of thing that he does for "fun" and the feeling of accomplishment all the time (or at least for one big race each year).

That is insane. When I did Dances with Dirt with Zaxxon and others, I spoke to one young lady while we were waiting to start (it was a 100K relay trail race, everyone did at least a half-marathon). There was a group that started before us doing the whole thing solo as an ultra marathon. This young lady told me she hopes to some day.

After I finished my last leg, she had as well and I came across her sitting on the tailgate of her support vehicle, panting like an exhausted dog. I asked her if she still wanted to run the whole thing, and her eyes suddenly brightened. "Yeah," she said, "just not today." I wonder if she ever did it.

Isgrimnur wrote:Do they sleep during that time, or are they talking to trees when they cross the finish line?

A bit of both actually. He finished with about 24 hours of non-moving time, stopping for food or sleep at aid stations along the way. Even that isn't enough to keep them from hallucinating though. I've heard some pretty funny stories about things he thought he was seeing along the way during this race and others.

Even more crazy is that the Moab 240 winners and record holders really don't sleep much along the way. They push through almost non-stop, often not sleeping for more than a 15 minute nap on the side of the road if they get too tired. This year's winner finished in 55h47m, averaging 4.3mph over the entire time and only stopping for a cumulative nine hours. The record is about an hour less

Oh hey. I forgot to post here when it happened, but I ran my latest marathon on October 17th - the Grand Rapids Marathon. That was #25 and state #23. But the cool part was that I ran it in 4 hrs, 19 mins, which was my best time since .... March 2017! Over ten marathons ago! I was pretty stoked. I'll probably never break 4 hrs again, but it was nice to have a time that I was happy to see, rather than disappointed in the continued slide in results.

Bad news is that I seemed to have hurt a toe on my left foot, so I've been pretty much on the sidelines these last few weeks. Next up (unless I sign up for something this winter): After 2 years of COVID cancellations, I'll hopefully run Green Bay this spring.

Congratulations on the time and sorry about the toe. Hopefully it's not too long of a recovery.

I may not like running in cold weather, but it certainly likes me. 7 of my top 10 runs for the year have come in the past 3 weeks, including a new PB this morning (9:46/mile). The weird thing is that I feel mentally like I'm slogging through mud for the first mile because it takes my body time to acclimate, but I'm actually moving at a pretty decent clip. Just feels slower because it's cold, I guess.

Currently on pace for a little over 430 miles on the year, which would beat my target of 410.

Can we see your toenails?

Can we not carry over the political stuff into this thread, please?

I started jogging last year in September. With the pandemic sending me home, I started walking the trails that is literally right in front of my house. WFH gave me extra time in my day. A quality of life improvement. After a few weeks of walking and seeing so many joggers, I was inspired to try it out. I haven't jogged since college. I started out extremely slow and ramped up slowly. I jog 3 days straight and one day off. I'm up to 3.1 miles (5K) per run with an average mile pace of 9:30. I feel great and have lost about 20 pounds with no other changes. I enjoy ending my work day by putting on my headphones and taking a nice jog through the woods and a lake.

I have no plans to run a race. I want to keep it causal and focused on health.

That's awesome Torfish, nice work!

Torfish wrote: ↑Wed Nov 24, 2021 1:41 pm I have no plans to run a race. I want to keep it causal and focused on health.

Same. I'm fine with simply seeing incremental improvements to my speed and distance.