Octopus Overlords

Writing style matters a lot. Someone like Burgess (Clockwork) or Kesey (Cuckoo) writes in such a distinctive way that the movie is necessarily an act of translation that really does feel like a very different experience. Another great example would be Nabokov's Lolita and Kubrick's Lolita. They're both excellent, but they're so different that they feel completely independent of each other.

Compare that to something like a typical thriller novel turned into a typical thriller movie. There are a lot of writers out there just doing "movies on paper," probably with the hope of easy adaptation into a screenplay.

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 5:05 pm There are a lot of writers out there just doing "movies on paper," probably with the hope of easy adaptation into a screenplay.

I read a lot of books probably written with this in mind. When I find an author I like, I tend to binge through most of their stuff (whatever is readily available from the library, anyway). The more popular authors actually start off pretty rough sometimes but noticeably improve over time. I recently read an early Nora Roberts book and wondered how the hell she became such a hit author...it was actually cringeworthy terrible.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 07, 2021 1:33 pm You and I don't always agree on movies/books/art (want to come over and watch Rushmore with me?), but I'm with you here. I saw the movie first (loved it) and later was blown away by the book. It's similar to my relationship with L.A. Confidential (loved the movie, later blown away by the book).

We can make a night of it. I'll bring The Messenger and Tank Girl.

Oh, look, who would have thunk it.

He didn't believe they'd catch up? Did he think they were going to run the series for 20 years? I'm beginning to think he really lives in his own world.

He just keeps coming up with more and more outrageous excuses as to why he can't finish a book in a decade.

I logged in finally to see that a post of mine from 2013 had been quoted - TWICE! Last year. My legacy lives on, I guess. But anywho... I'm fairly over GOT/ASoIaF at this point. Here's why:

1. The HBO series gave me a version of the story. Possibly not THE version, but A version. And it had some very high highs as well as some really annoying lows, including Daenerys's poorly-handled about-face and demise.
2. I still don't think GRRM is necessarily a chronic procrastinator in general, but I do think this story has gotten so far off the rails from where he thought it was going to go that he no longer knows how to write it. Or he's written himself into a space where he just doesn't like the story anymore. Or he's pissed at himself or fate or whomever that he couldn't finish it before the HBO series ended. Or he's pissed at HBO for botching his story. Or... I dunno, but at this point he's about 40 years away from finishing the story and I just don't care.
3. The 4th and 5th books were really disappointing compared to the first three, and I've got no reason to be optimistic that he'll serve up a 6th book that will be super-amazing, let alone a 7th if that ever even happens.
4. I feel a little suckered by buying the Targaryen novel, because it wasn't that good. If I'd realized it was volume 1 of 2 I might not have bought it at all.
5. I enjoyed the Dunk & Egg stories, but they're too hard to get. They're spread all over short-story anthologies and graphic novels, etc., etc. I don't like them enough to chase them down anymore.
6. I'm just not into the story that much at this point, honestly. He's tossed out some things that really interested me, but I'm starting to suspect they're not going anywhere. Again, I think the story has gotten away from GRRM and he doesn't know quite where to go with it anymore, which is why he's not finishing it.

Odin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:47 pm I logged in finally to see that a post of mine from 2013 had been quoted - TWICE! Last year. My legacy lives on, I guess.

You've got at least three more Star Wars films that we need your thoughts on.

Call for Brandon Sanderson, call for Brandon Sanderson.

Odin wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 12:47 pm I logged in finally to see that a post of mine from 2013 had been quoted - TWICE!

Welcome back, Odin! With membership of our humble abode typically dwindling away, I must say it's a rare pleasure to see a familiar face return back to the fold.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:47 pm Welcome back, Odin! With membership of our humble abode typically dwindling away, I must say it's a rare pleasure to see a familiar face return back to the fold.

+1

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:47 pmWelcome back, Odin! With membership of our humble abode typically dwindling away, I must say it's a rare pleasure to see a familiar face return back to the fold.

Thanks! I can really only handle one social media platform at a time and FB is the most generally useful for me, so that's where I've been hanging out. But I often THINK about coming back. I just never seem to get around to it.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 1:12 pm You've got at least three more Star Wars films that we need your thoughts on.

I'll be happy to go on at length about Rogue One and Solo, but nobody wants to hear me drone on about how lousy the final three "saga" films were. I don't even want to. I'm enjoying the hell out of The Mandalorian and the various animated series, however.

That's the first time I've heard OO referred to as a "social media platform". We're barely Web 2.0, man... we're a boomer forum!

Sudy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:45 pm That's the first time I've heard OO referred to as a "social media platform". We're barely Web 2.0, man... we're a boomer forum!

Uhhuh.

Sudy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 14, 2021 4:45 pm That's the first time I've heard OO referred to as a "social media platform". We're barely Web 2.0, man... we're a boomer forum!

It's his way of nicely telling us we're unsocial and unworthy. I should have known as much when he was actually working a Ren Faire instead of merely attending like us unsocial slackers are wont to do.

We met some new neighbors the other night, and they introduced themselves as John and Linda Snow. Without thinking I blurted out, "You know nothing John Snow!"

Thank God they were Game of Thrones fans and started laughing. I still felt bad. How many times has he heard that lame reply? I'm such a dork.

90% chance I would have done the same, if it gives you any comfort.

My luck would have been he actually DID know nothing…about the series.

I figured all the Johns Snow and Karens would have changed their names by now. I work with one older Karen who I thought would be devastated, but she seems to have taken it in stride.

Arise, ye thread, for another update about...well, nothing good when it comes to the book?

George R. R. Martin provided a blog post with random updates and bits of news. Here's the directly related to The Winds of Winter stuff:

I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters.

I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me.

Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome. I made a lot of progress on WINDS in 2020, and less in 2021… but “less” is not “none.”

Basically between 4 live action HBO shows and at least one animated show in the GoT universe, everyone waiting on one particular book can suck it is the message I'm getting.

Wish there was a place I could place a bet on the "no" side of the ledger for TWOW coming out in 2022.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:51 pm Arise, ye thread, for another update about...well, nothing good when it comes to the book?

George R. R. Martin provided a blog post with random updates and bits of news. Here's the directly related to The Winds of Winter stuff:

I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters.

I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me.

Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome. I made a lot of progress on WINDS in 2020, and less in 2021… but “less” is not “none.”

Basically between 4 live action HBO shows and at least one animated show in the GoT universe, everyone waiting on one particular book can suck it is the message I'm getting.

Wish there was a place I could place a bet on the "no" side of the ledger for TWOW coming out by 2032.

Mortoned.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:00 pm

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 1:51 pm Arise, ye thread, for another update about...well, nothing good when it comes to the book?

George R. R. Martin provided a blog post with random updates and bits of news. Here's the directly related to The Winds of Winter stuff:

I know, I know, for many of you out there, only one of those projects matters.

I am sorry for you. They ALL matter to me.

Yes, of course I am still working on THE WINDS OF WINTER. I have stated that a hundred times in a hundred venues, having to restate it endlessly is just wearisome. I made a lot of progress on WINDS in 2020, and less in 2021… but “less” is not “none.”

Basically between 4 live action HBO shows and at least one animated show in the GoT universe, everyone waiting on one particular book can suck it is the message I'm getting.

Wish there was a place I could place a bet on the "no" side of the ledger for TWOW coming out by 2032.

Mortoned.

Given the furor from the show, he may just be sick of the whole shebang. "Westeros" may be like a nagging headache at this point.

4 inches of snow out there and 3-4 more hours of snowfall.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Fri Mar 11, 2022 2:46 pm 4 inches of snow out there and 3-4 more hours of snowfall.

Winter has come?

It's 12 years since A Dance with Dragons was released, and Martin is only 75% done with The Winds of Winter.

He's never going to actually finish this series.

pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:03 pmHe's never going to actually finish this series.

I finally came to accept that around 2011, when the last book came out. Rather than wrapping up, he's on an increasing curve:

Book 2: 2 years
Book 3: 2 years
Book 4: 5 years
Book 5: 6 years
Book 6: 11+ years (GRRM age 74+)
Book 7: 15 years (GRRM age 88+)
Book 8: 20 years (GRRM age 108+)

At this point I wouldn't bet that Brandon Sanderson will be around to write the final book.

I've posted this one before.

The TV series finished the story for him. He either looked at the reaction and it justified his pace ("No one cares") or it completely demotivated him ("They didn't like what I had planned") and that's that.

But yeah, 0% chance of the series ever having a written conclusion and I'd place 50/50 odds on this next book ever seeing the light of day.

The Winds of Winter is definitely getting published at some form at some point, though god knows when. If GRRM were hit by a bus today, the publisher would wait a semi-respectful amount of time before paying someone to clean up the current manuscript and publish it.

I very much doubt that the last book ever gets published, though.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 2:50 pm The TV series finished the story for him. He either looked at the reaction and it justified his pace ("No one cares") or it completely demotivated him ("They didn't like what I had planned") and that's that.

But yeah, 0% chance of the series ever having a written conclusion and I'd place 50/50 odds on this next book ever seeing the light of day.

Another possible contributor is the metric ass-tons of money that are coming his way constantly now. He's well past the point of needing to care about income, and if he did, it's unlikely that his ASoIaF new book income would be his top earner today, anyway. Certainly it's far from most time/effort-per-dollar efficient.

Have 100% reached the "don't care" point. I was a huge fan, now I'm not. I pretend that it was a trilogy and am happy that way.

I'm not ready to say I 100% don't care yet. I still check a random internet forum every 2 years or so whenever the thread gets updated.

MHS wrote: ↑Tue Oct 25, 2022 4:11 pm Have 100% reached the "don't care" point. I was a huge fan, now I'm not. I pretend that it was a trilogy and am happy that way.

Yeah, I'm VERY close to being there. Was rabid about it when I finished the last book a few years ago of course. But that wanes with time.

If I'm being honest, the lack of a proper wrap-up hasn't even soured me on the series itself. The books to date were SO. DAMN. GOOD. that for ME, that experience almost completely makes up for the lack of a proper ending. I know that is heresy to a lot of people, but I REALLY appreciate the world he built and that I was able to enjoy it as much as I did.

Wait...am I a....GRRM APOLOGIST?!? Nooooooooooo!

I mean, if you guys really want it, I can take over and finish it for him. It's long been my belief that the Martin-verse should join the Marvel-verse, and I've got just the character to help in that endeavor.

Pasteus Pottius Petorias III, a heretofore unknown minor lord of Dorne, and his struggles to unite Westeros as one kingdom (under the battle cry "LET'S STICK TOGETHER!") would make for a wonderful conclusion to the series. At the end of the book's 100 year story, Westeros would advance its technology about 3 months, in keeping with the pace of the rest of the series.

Eventually, this would lead to a sale to Disney for the franchise and a whole lot of spin offs.

I dunno, I feel like what the series really needs is a full exploration of the legendary combat blimps of Pentos.

Whoa whoa whoa....slow your roll, pal. That kind of technology is about 25,000 years away for Westeros. You've gotta learn to walk before you run!

...or, in the case of Westeros, learn to put on shoes, stand up, figure out which foot you want to put forth first, then spend some time discussing this with pe....well, you get the idea.

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:23 pmPasteus Pottius Petorias III, a heretofore unknown minor lord of Dorne,

I know him. Biggus Dickus' cousin, right?

Shhhhh! That's like saying candyman three times in a mirror...except copyright lawyers appear instead of a supernatural serial killer.

...which is way worse.

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:29 pm Whoa whoa whoa....slow your roll, pal. That kind of technology is about 25,000 years away for Westeros. You've gotta learn to walk before you run!

...or, in the case of Westeros, learn to put on shoes, stand up, figure out which foot you want to put forth first, then spend some time discussing this with pe....well, you get the idea.

That's the thing - you could use this to close that big plot hole! I already have that scene written:


VARYS: My Lord, my spies have revealed that the Combat Blimps of Pentos are en route here!
JOFFREY: The Combat Blimps of Pentos? What are those?
[Everyone looks around in acknowledgement that Joffrey is an idiot]
TYWIN: The Combat Blimps of Pentos are legendary. It is said that they can fly across land and sea very...slowly. And then...drop weapons on people.
JOFFREY: Well where did these 'combat blimps' come from?
TYWIN: Don't you read your history books?? Right after the Conquest, Aegon and the Lords across the Narrow Sea met in a great conference, where it was decided to put all our best maesters and thinkers into developing blimps and only blimps!!!
JOFFREY: But why??
TYWIN: Because we did not have any blimps, you fool!