Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:35 am

msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:27 am Why are we talking about the GOP party transforming? It’s already happened. The moderates aren’t rallying to a new party, they are retiring and leaving politics. The MAGA elements are running the show, and nobody in the party can fight them.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:11 am

Either that, or they are waiting for all these Maga types to self-immolate and they'll pick up the pieces after it dust settles (and all the collateral damage)

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:18 am

The ability to fundraise through crowdsourcing means that there is no more vetting by big money, true "conservative" donors. Any nutjob can raise a few $M with a Trump endorsement or batshit crazy ad. And social media is pretty much a zero barrier to entry media.

I'm not saying that big money donors are a good thing but they tend to make safer, more mainstream choices in whom they support.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:46 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:18 am

I'm not saying that big money donors are a good thing but they tend to make safer, more mainstream choices in whom they support.

I should add that a huge threat is a big money source that decides to go full on support of the nutjobs. Especially if that source also controls large swaths of social media.

The CEO never elaborated on what he meant by “woke mind virus.” While the word “woke” originally represented someone who is alert to societal injustice, it has now mostly been co-opted by the right to mock progressive activism or more extremist left-wing ideas.

Musk never used the word publicly until the last few weeks, around the time that he started to get more political and declared that the Democratic Party is “the party of hate.” He said he will be voting Republican going forward.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 9:56 am

SEE ALSO, Jeff Yass:

Four decades later, the firm he and his friends founded, Susquehanna International Group, is a sprawling global company that makes billions of dollars. Yass and his team used their numerical expertise to make rapid-fire computer-driven trades in options and other securities, eventually becoming a giant middleman in the markets for stocks and other securities. If you have bought stock or options on an app like Robinhood or E-Trade, there’s a good chance you traded with Susquehanna without knowing it. Today, Yass, 63, is one of the richest and most powerful financiers in the country.

...

There, too, the winnings have been immense: at least $1 billion in tax savings over six recent years, according to ProPublica’s analysis of a trove of IRS data. During that time, Yass paid an average federal income tax rate of just 19%, far below that of comparable Wall Street traders

...

The tax savings have contributed to an explosion in wealth for Yass, who has increasingly poured that fortune into candidates and causes on the political right. He has spent more than $100 million on election campaigns in recent years. The money has gone to everything from anti-tax advocacy and charter schools to campaigns against so-called critical race theory and for candidates who falsely say the 2020 election was stolen and seek to ban abortion.

All the GOP needs to do is tap into folks (and corporations) like this and they have a firehose of money coming their way. It's almost like...money protects money and the people with interest in keeping it hoarded.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:08 am

msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:27 am Why are we talking about the GOP party transforming? It’s already happened. The moderates aren’t rallying to a new party, they are retiring and leaving politics. The MAGA elements are running the show, and nobody in the party can fight them.

Right and I'd argue it is still happening. The radicalization isn't in its final form.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:01 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 10:08 am
msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:27 am Why are we talking about the GOP party transforming? It’s already happened. The moderates aren’t rallying to a new party, they are retiring and leaving politics. The MAGA elements are running the show, and nobody in the party can fight them.
Right and I'd argue it is still happening. The radicalization isn't in its final form.

The key will be whether all those MAGAts who won their primaries can prevail in November anywhere except the most hopeless districts. The vocal minority can dominate the party, but can they also win competitive elections? We'll find out soon enough.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:28 am

malchior wrote:
msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 8:27 am Why are we talking about the GOP party transforming? It’s already happened. The moderates aren’t rallying to a new party, they are retiring and leaving politics. The MAGA elements are running the show, and nobody in the party can fight them.
Right and I'd argue it is still happening. The radicalization isn't in its final form.

I won’t disagree too strongly there. But it sure feels like we’ve seen enough to know what the final form will inevitably look like.

I see more and more stories of the GOP posting openly fascist views, and their base either shrugs or cheers them on.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:09 pm

Yup. Heinlein's The Reverend Nehemiah Scudder.

[T]he idea that we could lose our freedom by succumbing to a wave of religious hysteria, I am sorry to say that I consider it possible. I hope that it is not probable. But there is a deep strain of religious fanaticism in this, our culture, it is rooted in our history and it has broken out many times with us in the past. It is with us now; there is has been a sharp rise in evangelical sects in this country in recent year, some of which hold beliefs theocratic in the extreme, anti-intellectual, anti-scientific and anti-libertarian.
It is truism that any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so and will follow it by suppressing opposition, subverting all education to seize early the minds of the young and by killing, locking up or driving underground all heretics…It is the bounden duty of the faithful to do so. The custodians of the True Faith cannot logically admit tolerance of heresy to be a virtue.

More:

[A] combination of a dynamic evangelist, enough money, and modern techniques of advertising and propaganda might make Billy Sunday’s (link) effort look like a corner store compared to Sears Roebuck. Throw in a depression for good measure, promise a material heaven here on earth and a dash of anti-Semitism, anti-Catholicism , anti-Negroism and large dose of anti-‘furriners’ in general and anti-intellectuals here at home and the result could be something quite frightening—particularly when one recalls that our voting system is such that a minority distributed as pluralities in enough states can constitute a working majority in Washington.

Kasey Chang · Post by **Kasey Chang** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:31 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:01 am The key will be whether all those MAGAts who won their primaries can prevail in November anywhere except the most hopeless districts. The vocal minority can dominate the party, but can they also win competitive elections? We'll find out soon enough.

I'm not worried about that.

I'm more worried about what would they do when they realize they will lose quite badly.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:06 pm

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:31 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:01 am The key will be whether all those MAGAts who won their primaries can prevail in November anywhere except the most hopeless districts. The vocal minority can dominate the party, but can they also win competitive elections? We'll find out soon enough.
I'm not worried about that.

I'm more worried about what would they do when they realize they will lose quite badly.

Trump won in 2016 (w/o winning the Popular Vote). Economy is usually number one issue, but also the zero sum obstruction game guarantees that everyone is pissed off and votes for the oppo party just to see change, even if it's bad.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Jun 22, 2022 10:53 am

A reminder:

“If he is the nominee, if he was up against Biden, I’d vote for him again” — Rusty Bowers on Trump, who he also said orchestrated an illegal and unconstitutional scheme to steal the last election.

Default · Post by **Default** » Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:20 pm

With all the shit that came out today,the midterm elections became a lot less certain.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:31 pm

Default wrote:With all the shit that came out today,the midterm elections became a lot less certain.

Sadly, no they haven’t.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Fri Jun 24, 2022 7:41 pm

As before, if we're stupid enough to give them power again, we pretty much deserve what we get. Welcome to your new position as serf.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:41 pm

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 2:06 pm
Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 12:31 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jun 21, 2022 11:01 am The key will be whether all those MAGAts who won their primaries can prevail in November anywhere except the most hopeless districts. The vocal minority can dominate the party, but can they also win competitive elections? We'll find out soon enough.
I'm not worried about that.

I'm more worried about what would they do when they realize they will lose quite badly.
Trump won in 2016 (w/o winning the Popular Vote). Economy is usually number one issue, but also the zero sum obstruction game guarantees that everyone is pissed off and votes for the oppo party just to see change, even if it's bad.

TBH he also won in 2020.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:56 pm

Default wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:20 pm With all the shit that came out today,the midterm elections became a lot less certain.

Agree, but not for the same reasons as you, sadly.

I suspect the red voters will turn out in force...'kill shot' and all that. Hopefully I am wrong.

Maybe unrelated anecdote from work:
One of the sales techs that assists me is a single black mom who moved here from MI last month. To be an hourly worker. Apparently she declared bankruptcy within the recent past. She's having trouble finding housing here due to that bankruptcy and we got into politics a bit the other day as she was explaining her situation to me.

Me being me, I let her know where I stand politically, but made no assumptions about her. She said she only voted for Biden bc he had mentioned student loan debt forgiveness. Eventually I asked "so if Trump had offered that, would you have voted for him?" Her answer? "Hell yes!"

Anecdotal, sure, but having done what I did for the past 5 years, I have met a LOT of people in similar situations who are so worried about making rent or whatever, AND are so disillusioned politically, ("all politicians lie"), that they have simply started voting for "themselves" in a way. Nothing new, I know. But it can explain the shift of Latino and black voters willing to vote very far right of where they typically have, including Trump and Trump-likes.

And yes, of course I went into "but you can't possibly compare Biden's level of lying with Trump's, right?" And she even admitted that Trump in general was a much bigger liar than Biden....but we're arguing about scale, which around here, plays really well as a solid argument...but in the real world? I think VERY much less.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:17 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:56 pm
Default wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:20 pm With all the shit that came out today,the midterm elections became a lot less certain.
Agree, but not for the same reasons as you, sadly.

I suspect the red voters will turn out in force...'kill shot' and all that. Hopefully I am wrong.

Nothing motivates like victory. The Democrats have to counter that by channeling this. They need to outperform them and then get shit done. No more excuses. None of this Manchin shield bullshit. Otherwise we're going to spiral into war.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:18 pm

Now do Plessy vs Ferguson/Brown vs Board of Education.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:19 pm

Idiotic. I think he is saying precedents sometimes get overturned but the comparison is ridiculous. Both were overturned to grant rights. This is the first ever that a right was torn away by tyrants. Anyway the moral is fuck Cornyn.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:20 pm

I think it's safe to say that the people posting in this forum analyze what's happening in the country more in a week than most people do in a year. A stunning number of people don't know, and don't understand why they should care. Most people never get abortions, so the implications of Roe being overturned never dawns on them. The similarly impactful decisions the court has been making - like Miranda - they never hear about, nor do they understand how it affects the country if they do.

The problem isn't that the majority of people are horrible, the problem is that a majority are clueless, so the horrible minority is able to either manipulate them or outnumber them in the one place it does count (the polls.)

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:26 pm

I think our possibly unique sense of American individualism (selfishness if you're feeling cynical) has long led us to this moment. We tend to not think collectively - even SPEAKING about thinking or acting "collectively" brings up the inevitable "THAT'S COMMUNISM!!!" knee jerk. Just the WHIFF is enough to make people freak the hell out.

So it's vote for me and mine, and anything else is un-American. You want me to consider voting for the good of the country?!? So you're asking me to think SOCIALISTICALLY?!?!

It's in our DNA.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:27 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:20 pm I think it's safe to say that the people posting in this forum analyze what's happening in the country more in a week than most people do in a year lifetime.

Dude, I think it's safe to make the correction above and not be hyperbolic.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:34 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:26 pm I think our possibly unique sense of American individualism (selfishness if you're feeling cynical) has long led us to this moment. We tend to not think collectively - even SPEAKING about thinking or acting "collectively" brings up the inevitable "THAT'S COMMUNISM!!!" knee jerk. Just the WHIFF is enough to make people freak the hell out.

So it's vote for me and mine, and anything else is un-American. You want me to consider voting for the good of the country?!? So you're asking me to think SOCIALISTICALLY?!?!

It's in our DNA.

We also have long, proud history of smooth sailing. We tend to think of the NOW to the exclusion of all else, and so much of what's happening now is issues about later (COVID, the environment, the changes in our government.) So much of what we fear isn't what Monday is going to be like, it's what 2032 is going to be like, and what our children will be dealing with when they're the adults responsible for handling it all. And Americans just can't seem to think that way.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:34 pmSo much of what we fear isn't what Monday is going to be like, it's what 2032 is going to be like,

The step-singing Pelosi's of the world would beg to differ.

That may be going too far, even for me, but I'm not in a great frame of mind at present.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:49 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:17 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 12:56 pm
Default wrote: ↑Fri Jun 24, 2022 6:20 pm With all the shit that came out today,the midterm elections became a lot less certain.
Agree, but not for the same reasons as you, sadly.

I suspect the red voters will turn out in force...'kill shot' and all that. Hopefully I am wrong.
Nothing motivates like victory. The Democrats have to counter that by channeling this. They need to outperform them and then get shit done. No more excuses. None of this Manchin shield bullshit. Otherwise we're going to spiral into war.

Yep, Republicans are energized and Dems are demoralized bordering on broken. This is their last chance to fight back.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 2:58 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:18 pm

Now do Plessy vs Ferguson/Brown vs Board of Education.

He says this in reply to Obama just for extra racism.

EDIT: This here.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:01 pm

I mean...

Miller: President Trump… I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday

No idea what's going on with Illinois, but JFC already.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:05 pm

Yet we have folks expressing genuine surprise right now.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:08 pm

We should definitely try to sit down at a table and really hash things out with these folks. I'm sure we can still find some common ground.

Or maybe - just hear me out - always punch Nazis. Always.

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:19 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:01 pm I mean...

Miller: President Trump… I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday
No idea what's going on with Illinois, but JFC already.

Holy fucking shit. Did she really just say "white life" with Donald Trump on the stage? Ohhhhh.... hahahha

You guys repeatedly reassured me that these guys wouldn't start goosestepping down main street the SECOND they overthrew democracy. Well they did, and they did.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:27 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:19 pm You guys repeatedly reassured me that these guys wouldn't start goosestepping down main street the SECOND they overthrew democracy. Well they did, and they did.

Who are the you guys?

Drazzil · Post by **Drazzil** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:03 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:27 pm
Drazzil wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:19 pm You guys repeatedly reassured me that these guys wouldn't start goosestepping down main street the SECOND they overthrew democracy. Well they did, and they did.
Who are the you guys?

Tried doing a search to pull up the post but couldn't find it. More tomorrow

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:29 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:01 pm I mean...

Miller: President Trump… I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday
No idea what's going on with Illinois, but JFC already.

Oops, not oops. People cheered that remark and Trump smiled.

I was at an election fundraiser yesterday. Heavily Latino middle progressive. Everyone is charged up. Many candidates are unopposed on next Tuesday's primary but still showed up to rally the troops. But I was sitting there listening to some amazing speeches (and drinking great Bourbon and eating empanadas) knowing it was all just preaching to the choir. The vote in a solidly blue urban area, where pretty much everything after the primary is an unopposed Democrat, is almost meaningless. It's exactly to plan.

Mary Miller is a downstate Rep of the reddest district in the state. I don't think it has voted less than 65% R since it's inception. It has been unopposed at least once. But is exactly the kind of place where the GOP makes hay.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 6:48 am

Oh, also:

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:18 pm

Now do Plessy vs Ferguson/Brown vs Board of Education.

Jesus Fucking Christ. There is no optic where that is ok. Not as a joke, not as serious, not a troll.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:01 am

From the WaPo:

“President Trump, on behalf of all the MAGA patriots in America, I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday,” Rep. Mary E. Miller (R) said at the rally Saturday night in Mendon, Ill., referring to Trump’s former campaign slogan, “Make America Great Again.”

She began clapping her hands as spectators, some clutching red “Save America” placards, also began to applaud.

Of course soon after it was claimed that she "misspoke".

Edit: Ooops, I didn’t realize this was posted earlier in the thread. But you know, white lives get all the attention I guess…

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:24 pm

Smoove_B wrote:I mean...

Miller: President Trump… I want to thank you for the historic victory for white life in the Supreme Court yesterday
No idea what's going on with Illinois, but JFC already.

I hate Illinois Nazis...

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:26 pm

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:29 pm

Yea. Well done there.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:44 pm