Elite: Dangerous

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 3:55 pm

Sepiche wrote:but gamepad and keyboard and mouse support for the game both work well too.

Glad to hear this, I wasn't looking forward to dragging out my old Saitek X52 Pro since the rubber on the handles has turned to gum... sticky, sticky gum.

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:01 pm

RMC wrote:
Sepiche wrote:
RMC wrote:Umm.. Wow, 162.00 bucks for that set-up. Anything a little more realistic? If I spent 60 bucks on a game, I don't want to have to spend 160+ on peripherals to enjoy said game..
Using a HOTAS is fun, but it's definitely not needed. Any sort of joystick will work, but gamepad and keyboard and mouse support for the game both work well too.

Something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-2960706- ... 207&sr=1-4

Or this:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Extreme- ... 207&sr=1-2

Or this:
http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Fl ... 207&sr=1-6

Would work fine for a cheaper joystick option.
Those are all doable. I'll see what Christmas cash I get, and maybe invest in a joystick, and see how I like it. Then I might upgrade if I really like the game that much. Plus I figure I will buy Star Citizen as well, but might have to upgrade my PC for that game.

I am using the Logitech option there and it is working fine. Not enough buttons but it's workable.

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:01 pm

TiLT wrote: Were I playing without the Rift.....

So just how immersive is the Rift? Is it that big of a deal?

I love the idea of it + HOTAS but we're talking what, $500+ to play that way?

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:15 pm

Redfive wrote:
TiLT wrote: Were I playing without the Rift.....
So just how immersive is the Rift? Is it that big of a deal?

I love the idea of it + HOTAS but we're talking what, $500+ to play that way?

Anecdotally I've heard it's amazing with Elite, assuming you have the graphics card to handle rendering everything twice, but I haven't had a chance to try it myself. I'm trying to hold out until the retail version of the OR is available, but twice now I've been as close to buying the DK2 as having it in my cart, finger hovering over the buy button.

I took a long swing out to the frontier last night and explored a few new systems before starting back toward the core worlds. I should have some play time Saturday or Sunday evening. If anyone is interested we could try to pick a meetup point to base ourselves out of and see if we can do some group bounty hunting or something. My Cobra isn't a killing machine quite yet, but I do have some nice, new gimbal mounted blasters and beefy shields that should let me hold my own.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:28 pm

I am so going to resist this as long as possible.. I almost bought that HOTAS thingy, and I don't even know what HOTAS stands for..

You all and the OO effect... And your all not even trying yet.. But anything that might be like starflight, which is my favorite game ever, will always get at least a look from me. Plus I like space sims... <sigh>

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:44 pm

Redfive wrote:So just how immersive is the Rift? Is it that big of a deal?

It's the difference between playing a game on your monitor and being in the game. It's the feeling of looking down at your avatar's hands and (as long as you're using a HOTAS set up in the right location) honestly forgetting that they aren't your own. It's the difference between looking at tiny computer models of grand structures, or actually realizing the sheer scale of them. With the Rift, you're no longer looking through a window into the game. Instead, the game envelops you completely.

Essentially, it's the first time in your life that you'll actually get a sense of how it must be to pilot a spacecraft.

Is it worth jumping in with the developer kits though? That's a harder question to answer. There aren't that many AAA-games right now that take full advantage of the Rift (only Elite Dangerous and Alien: Isolation come to mind), and as far as I can tell there aren't going to be too many more of them until the release of the full commercial version. It entirely depends on how much disposable income you've got, and how enthusiastic you are about new technology. To me, the choice of whether or not to get the Rift was simple, but that may not be the case for others.

The biggest downside with using the Rift and a HOTAS for Elite Dangerous is the amount of setup (I have to carefully place my HOTAS, the Rift and my headset in such a way that I won't get tangled up in the cables) every time I want to play the game, and it gets more tiring than you're used to with a regular monitor. I haven't played more than two hours in a row with the Rift on so far, at which point I really need a break. Even so, I can't imagine myself ever playing this game without it.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 4:51 pm

RMC wrote:I don't even know what HOTAS stands for..

Hands On Throttle And Stick.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:31 pm

I bought it.. I am now downloading it... <sigh>

Sepiche · Post by **Sepiche** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:32 pm

RMC wrote:I bought it.. I am now downloading it... <sigh>

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Fri Dec 19, 2014 6:40 pm

I've got one of those backer levels from the Kickstarter where I get all future expansions for free. For once I feel like that's a good deal, as I'm really feeling confident about the future of this game.

The biggest expansion they've been talking a lot about is the one that will allow us to actually land on planets. It's supposed to be out sometime in 2015, and I'm really looking forward to it. That's the only thing missing from Frontier Elite that I'm still missing here.

Redfive · Post by **Redfive** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 12:09 am

So is everyone buying it directly from the website? You can only use Paypal, not a straight credit card?

Not necessarily opposed to it, just not what I expected.

EDIT: NM I found it.

2nd EDIT: Downloading now

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:10 pm

Whew, I'm finally starting to make some real progress in my trading. My first few sessions had me struggling to find anything truly lucrative, and the selection of inhabited star systems in the vicinity was limited, with long in-system travel times to boot. I ended up pointing my ship towards the great unknown (for me. We're talking civilized space here) to seek my fortunes, and boy have I started to find them.

My current base of operations is a system in which they seem to think everything should be legalized. You want slaves? You got them. Narcotics? No problem. Toxic waste? Got you covered. Everything is sold openly, while the neighboring systems outlaw almost all of it. While I haven't dabbled in smuggling yet, this place is making it tempting.

Instead, I've been trading between the outposts and larger stations in the area, always returning to the central system I'm operating out of so as not to get lost or too far away from where I want to be. I keep getting very nice missions where they ask me for commodities I can get a single hyperspace jump away, often at unsanctioned bases (with red, glowing skulls emblazoned all over the place). Several times I've had a base ask me for a commodity I already had in my hold, which is easy money indeed.

My current net worth is roughly 190k credits, which is a nice boost from my initial 40k. I might stick around in this area long enough for my reputation to increase with the local systems, at which point they should give me even more lucrative missions. My trade rating is still Mostly Penniless, and I have no idea what it takes to make it increase.

They really toned down the interdictions since the beta, btw. The last time I played the beta I got interdicted 4 times during one supercruise trip. After release I've only been interdicted once, and I managed to shake that ship off before it could pull me out of supercruise. I believe the biggest change they've made is to have the authorities only interdict you if you've got a criminal record, or something like that.

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 4:54 pm

I am presently having a great time. I've traded in my sidewinder and bought a viper. I've upgraded the engine and distribution thingy as well as mounted weapons on all 4 hard points so at least I feel a little dangerous.

FYI Tip for new players if you don't want to go the trading to make a buck route.

1. Make 18000 credits somehow.
2. Replace your stock weapons with 2 gimballed burst lasers.
3. Go to your local nav point. There will almost always be a mix of clean and wanted ships in this area. The clean ones will sometime help you out and kill the wanted ones.
4. Profit.

Tip on smuggled goods.
1. Get about 7k from the docking port facing the entrance.
2. Burn full power to the port and request landing permission at about 5k. Keep full power until you are inside the station and then lower your landing gear.
3. This will get you landing permission and inside the station before you can get scanned.
4. Sell your ill gotten gains.
5. Profit.

This works really good but the bad part is if there is a patrol vessel outside the station he may decide you scan you before you even start your landing run.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 5:15 pm

If you want to do it the advanced way, start at a slightly longer distance than you mentioned, then turn off flight assist and give yourself some speed directly towards the station's entrance. Turn off all your ship's systems, including life support and engines, and drift through the opening in silent mode. They won't even know you're there.

I haven't tried this myself, but it's the way I understand it's supposed to work.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:02 pm

My Logitech 3D Pro seems to be ailing, but I think I got it to a workable condition.

Just a quick tip/question: Is there an advantage to setting the X-axis to Roll rather than to Yaw? Yes yes, I know this is how real rudder planes are, but it seems more natural to me to have left and right be, well, left and right. I think that was the way the X series was and I've gotten used to it that way, but if the X-axis Roll is better for the game, then I'm willing to learn it.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:06 pm

You do NOT want to use yaw as your primary means of turning in this game. It's incredibly slow, and only meant for minor adjustments to aim. Elite Dangerous is all about roll and pitch, and this isn't something you can realistically choose for yourself. The designers made this choice deliberately to make dogfights more engaging and avoid having the player feel like a turret in space.

Keep X-axis to roll, or you're going to find yourself very restricted and useless in all kinds of situations.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:15 pm

If Im not mistaken the Logitech 3D Pro has a twist function like my Sidewinder. I use that to roll.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 6:19 pm

Daehawk wrote:If Im not mistaken the Logitech 3D Pro has a twist function like my Sidewinder. I use that to roll.

I recommend using the twist for yaw in this particular game, and the X-axis for roll. The twist isn't exact enough for the steering function you're going to be using the most, while you'll barely use yaw at all.

Cortilian · Post by **Cortilian** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 7:28 pm

BTW this is the setup I use for my Logitech 3D Pro. https://app.box.com/s/0wk3kwsc7jykw44z45j4

Here's what the buttons do (not my invention)

Forward thrust = A
Backward thrust = Z
Open/close Galaxy Map = M
Rotate Galaxy Map = left mouse button & mouse movement
Zoom Galaxy Map = mouse wheel
Toggle Rotational Correction = C
Toggle Lights = L
Engage/Disengage SuperCruise = J ²
Engage/Abort Hyperspace = H ²
Look around = right mouse button & mouse movement
Navigation/Contacts Panel = 1
Comms Panel = 2
Systems Panel = 3
Radar Panel = 4
Reset Focus (return to 'normal view') = Left Shift
Next Tab in Panels = E
Previous Tab in Panels = W
Quick Comms = Spacebar
Deploy/Stow Weapons = Enter
Next Firegroup = .
Previous Firegroup = ,
Toggle Silent Running = Del
Deploy Heatsink = V
Increase Scanner Range = PageUp
Decrease Scanner range = PageDown
Power Distribution = Arrow keys (SYS = left, ENG = up, WEP = right, balanced = down)
Eject all cargo = D

And Joystick functions:
Pitch/Roll/Yaw = Y/X/Z -axes, Z-axis = stick twist (for Yaw)
Throttle = Throttle (forward only)
Toggle Reverse Throttle = Button 12
Primary Fire / Deploy Hardponts = Trigger (Button 1)
Secondary Fire = Thumb Trigger (Button 2)
Select Target / Select Menu Item = Button 3 (bottom left button around hat switch)
Cycle Next Subsystem = Button 5 (top left button around hat switch)
Cycle Next Target = Button 5 (top right button around hat switch)
Boost = Button 4 (bottom right button around hat switch)
Lateral/Vertical Thrusters / Move Cursor in Menus = Hat Switch
Toggle Flight Assist = Button 11
Toggle Landing Gear = Button 9
Toggle cargo Scoop = Button 10
Fire Chaff = Button 7
Use Shield Cell = Button 8

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Dec 20, 2014 8:17 pm

Button 12, that's cute. When I plug my X55 in with my 360 controller still connected, I have button 83.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:10 am

Thanks for the note on Roll vs. Yaw. I remember, way back when I was fairly young, trying to play the original Elite and never being able to get out of the beginning dock! I certainly did not understand roll and yaw at that time!

I am finding that my 360 controller might work a bit better than my Logitech 3d Pro. I'm having trouble getting the logitech joystick software to work and the sensitivity just feels, for lack of a better word, muddy. I may invest in that cheap Thrustmaster HOTAS or perhaps in a new single joystick. Although, the gamepad doesn't feel too bad, so I might try to go past the training missions with that and see what happens.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 1:13 am

So are you guys playing the campaign or the free roam cause I heard the free roam is the way to play right now.

Wait scratch that....I think I got Elite mixed up with Starpoint Gemini 2

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 2:10 am

I got around to playing this tonight. Controls suck. I was doing the training missions and somehow I got past the first 3 or 4 but when it came time to fight one on one with another sidewinder I cant do it.

I just cannot play with my roll set to left and right on the stick itself. Just not intuitive at all and I cant do it. I have to use twist for roll and that works great. The trouble is my pitch and yaw are AWFUL slow. Its a crawl to turn my ship. It just creeps along. i cant find the setting yet in controls to speed it up. Also I cant tell if my throttle is working. I set it...but still cant tell.

I have to choose generic joystick. I dont know why my exact one isn't listed. It always was before in games.

I need to get this stick straightened out and I think I can kick ass. Man testing those gimbled weps was great. I hate the straight forward firing ones now haha.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:40 am

Daehawk wrote:The trouble is my pitch and yaw are AWFUL slow. Its a crawl to turn my ship. It just creeps along. i cant find the setting yet in controls to speed it up.

What am I, chopped liver?

I'm telling you that there is no setting to let you change this. It's by design. At most, you can increase your pitch by reducing your speed to half, but yaw is designed to be useless for anything but small adjustments to aim. You must learn to use roll in this game, or you wont' get anywhere.

Also, just skip the combat tutorials after trying them out for a bit. They're deliberately hard.

A small tip about using roll in combat: If you're on someone's tail, the trick is to use roll to adjust your ship so that you're on the same plane as the opponent. That way, if he tries to pull back or down to evade you, you can immediately follow him.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:44 am

The yaw is limited in this game because they want dogfighting to feel like something more dynamic than "turrets in space." Rewatch any of your favorite Star Wars dogfights and watch how many times you see a cool move where a ship spins and then pulls up. That's what they want you to be doing and seeing in Elite... with some Battlestar Galactica moves added in.

Basically just pretend you have an airplane in space. When you want to turn in an airplane, you roll then pull up, only using rudder yaw for minor corrections. Same in Elite.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 4:10 pm

Might work better if I felt like I was moving forward. I dont think my throttle is working. Doesn't help that its backwards to everything else Ive ever played.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:45 pm

Daehawk wrote:Might work better if I felt like I was moving forward. I dont think my throttle is working. Doesn't help that its backwards to everything else Ive ever played.

You mean the throttle is backwards? You can change that to whatever orientation you want.

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:53 pm

No not the throttle backwards..the controls. I thought I set my throttle right...thought that 3 times now. Must be another setting.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:27 pm

Daehawk wrote:No not the throttle backwards..the controls. I thought I set my throttle right...thought that 3 times now. Must be another setting.

You can invert the throttle axis. I had to do that, as pulling it back sped me up and pushing me forward made me reverse.

Once I learn to feel comfortable with the slow pitch and yaw, I think I will be ok. For some reason, the pitch felt more responsive on the gamepad, but that doesn't make much sense.

Anyone have any opinions on this stick: http://www.amazon.com/Hercules-2960706- ... s=joystick

The Logitech 3D profiling software is just not working with my Win 7 64x OS. It has given me problems for some time now, but I had not used it enough to merit getting a new one. I think, now, that I bought a bum one.

I would get this Thrustmaster HOTAS (mentioned earlier in the thread), but I don't know if I have the desk space for it. http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Fl ... s=joystick

I always wanted one of the Saitek HOTAS systems, but they are just too expensive for my lack of use of them.

Which reminds me, I need to dust off my driving wheel and find a way to hook it to my new desk.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 6:34 pm

baelthazar wrote:Once I learn to feel comfortable with the slow pitch and yaw, I think I will be ok. For some reason, the pitch felt more responsive on the gamepad, but that doesn't make much sense.

Unlike yaw, pitch is supposed to be responsive, but only at the correct speed. If you're flying at max speed, any attempt to either pitch or yaw will be painfully slow. What you need to do is to look at the blue area to the right of your radar, and keep your throttle within that. The brighter the blue color, the more responsive your turning will be. Both pitch and yaw benefit from this, but pitch is far, far more effective.

Those of you using regular joysticks: Remember that you need to control lateral movement too, in all four directions. This is a separate knob on HOTAS systems, but a regular joystick might require that you use the keyboard for these sections. Lateral thrust is vital during docking, but can also be useful to strafe during combat.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:04 pm

Hmm... in that case, the Gamepad certainly has the advantage. The one stick is for pitch/roll and the other stick is for yaw and forward and back thrust.

Thanks for the tip on the speed affecting pitch! That certainly makes more sense now! BTW, is there a key to match speed with a target?

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 9:56 pm

I have a ten year old (at least) Saitek X52 Pro, how much trouble to get it working with the game? Are there already profiles in place in the game?

jztemple2 · Post by **jztemple2** » Sun Dec 21, 2014 10:38 pm

Also, how easy is ED to pick up for someone who has no previous experience with the game series, or games of this type?

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:40 am

jztemple2 wrote:I have a ten year old (at least) Saitek X52 Pro, how much trouble to get it working with the game? Are there already profiles in place in the game?

I can answer this one, at least - the x52 is apparently the preferred HOTAS for the game. Everything is premapped and seems to work out of the box. I've got less than an hour into the game, but the controls are working perfectly.

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:08 am

The Saitek X52 Pro is the ideal way to play this game, to the point where the in-game cockpit controls are modeled after it. It's what I use, and you'll have no trouble with it. To put it like this: The latest patch added button icons, to make it easier to configure your controls, for the three most popular controllers. Those controllers were the Xbox 360 controller, Saitek X52, and Saitek X52 Pro.

The most important parts of the controller will already be set up for you, but you should still configure it yourself in the game. I've made lots of changes to my own control profile.

One thing to keep in mind is that you want to install the X52 Pro drivers and then run its control panel software. From the MFD tab, remove the checkbox for "Enable Clutch Mode". Clutch mode is useless for Elite Dangerous, and means that you'd be unable to map one of the buttons on the throttle to anything at all. Disabling it frees that button up for whatever you want.

baelthazar wrote:Thanks for the tip on the speed affecting pitch! That certainly makes more sense now! BTW, is there a key to match speed with a target?

Nope, there's no such thing. You're less likely to stay on someone's tail in this game anyway than you might be used to, but in any case, you're supposed to control the speed yourself. You'll mostly keep the throttle in the middle of the blue zone during combat encounters anyway, but if the duel turns into a joust, you might want to increase your speed (as well as take advantage of lateral thrust).

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 5:42 am

Btw, if anyone comes across "me" in this game, I'd like to hear about it. One of the rewards from the Kickstarter was to have my name become part of the pool used to generate NPC names.

wonderpug · Post by **wonderpug** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 9:58 am

jztemple2 wrote:Also, how easy is ED to pick up for someone who has no previous experience with the game series, or games of this type?

How patient are you with learning new games and game mechanics, and how well do you do with games that have you make your own fun? Can you enjoy Minecraft survival mode? Skyrim or GTA if they were stripped of their storyline missions?

TiLT · Post by **TiLT** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:23 am

I'd say Elite Dangerous is pretty easy to pick up and play, particularly if you're willing to watch the brief, official tutorial videos. The game's mechanics are simple, but there is tons of depth to it that you don't have to touch until you feel ready.

Elite Dangerous is much easier to understand and play than most other games in this genre that I've tried.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:25 am

TiLT wrote:I'd say Elite Dangerous is pretty easy to pick up and play, particularly if you're willing to watch the brief, official tutorial videos. The game's mechanics are simple, but there is tons of depth to it that you don't have to touch until you feel ready.

Elite Dangerous is much easier to understand and play than most other games in this genre that I've tried.

Thanks for the link. I am having issues setting up the joystick.. I am not very good at even understanding what a Yaw and Pitch are, let alone know what to program my joystick to do.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:35 am

Pitch affects if you're looking at sky or ground. Roll affects the position of the wings. Yaw changes your compass heading.