NAACP leader has been lying about her race

[LawBeefaroni]

The more pictures I see of her, the more I have to wonder why her ethnicity wasn't questioned earlier.

"Hey, are you really black?" rates right up there with "Hey, are you pregnant?" as something you just don't ask.

That's essentially the question that starrted all this though.

It wasn't started with a question, it was started with a statement by her estranged parents. And Meal's post gives an indication of why they may have made that statement.

[Unagi]

adam's apple shaving

Am I the only person who's toes curly when they hear that phrase.

[hepcat]

The more pictures I see of her, the more I have to wonder why her ethnicity wasn't questioned earlier.

Ah, Archer. He's funny.

Maybe she's not black, but she does look Irish to me, which is certainly not 'white'.

Or are we not doing that anymore?

<THAT'S RACIST>.gif

You can use the one above, I guess.

[LordMortis]

Or are we not doing that anymore?

Ah, Archer. He's funny.

I see what you did there.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2CE0DjDdVA

[Rip]

The local story regarding her brother and alleged child sexual assault is not so cheerful.

A source close to the sex assault case confirmed to The Denver Post on Monday that 39-year-old Joshua Dolezal, accused in Clear Creek County of four felony counts of child sex assault by one in a position of trust, is related to Rachel Dolezal.

The Daily News in New York City on Sunday night reported that Rachel Dolezal has been assisting the person her brother is accused of assaulting. She had previously told the The Spokesman-Review in Spokane, Wash., that she is suspicious of her parents' timing in discussing her ancestry. She told the newspaper the comments came as her brother faces a "key juncture" in a case against him.

That would totally suck if this circus is detrimental to the victim receiving justice. Pretty pathetic that they have said nothing for years and the moment they can use it to deflect from their own wrongdoings they do. Infuriates me a little.

[GreenGoo]

Gender dysphoria has always been a thing.

Medically its only been accepted since the 1970s (appeared in DSM in 1980).

But you're not suggesting that it magically appeared in the 70's, are you? If not, what's your point in reference to Rmn9's post?

It's a medical condition, like congenital heart defects, schizophrenia, autism, blindness, deafness, etc etc.

Are you telling me that your logic allows you to suddenly have holes in your heart valves?

I'm not being inconsistent, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what is involved in a transgender condition and diagnosis.

I think its a little more complex than you make it seem. It is a medical condition now. It has not always been seen that way.

No one said it was simple, I said it was a medical condition. It has always been a medical condition. Schizophrenia was first recognized in 1887 but didn't receive that name until later. Prior to that it was diagnosed as demons and treated by drilling holes in peoples heads. So what?

That we are still learning what causes it, whether it can be treated, whether it should be treated and whether every case is the same or if each one is unique is beside the point.

My sole point in all this is that Transrace is a term made up by non-medical people on this board and then compared to transgender, like they are somehow similarly legit.

If your point is that one day Transrace might be a recognized medical condition, well, never say never, I guess.

[Rip]

Gender dysphoria has always been a thing.

Medically its only been accepted since the 1970s (appeared in DSM in 1980).

But you're not suggesting that it magically appeared in the 70's, are you? If not, what's your point in reference to Rmn9's post?

It's a medical condition, like congenital heart defects, schizophrenia, autism, blindness, deafness, etc etc.

Are you telling me that your logic allows you to suddenly have holes in your heart valves?

I'm not being inconsistent, you have a fundamental misunderstanding about what is involved in a transgender condition and diagnosis.

I think its a little more complex than you make it seem. It is a medical condition now. It has not always been seen that way.

No one said it was simple, I said it was a medical condition. It has always been a medical condition. Schizophrenia was first recognized in 1887 but didn't receive that name until later. Prior to that it was diagnosed as demons and treated by drilling holes in peoples heads. So what?

That we are still learning what causes it, whether it can be treated, whether it should be treated and whether every case is the same or if each one is unique is beside the point.

My sole point in all this is that Transrace is a term made up by non-medical people on this board and then compared to transgender, like they are somehow similarly legit.

If your point is that one day Transrace might be a recognized medical condition, well, never say never, I guess.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transracial

Powerful aren't we?

[GreenGoo]

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/transracial

Powerful aren't we?

Lol, I never said it wasn't a word, I said it wasn't a recognized medical diagnosis. You're like a kid that claims Santa Claus is real because you watched Miracle of 34th Street.

[pr0ner]

WaPo reports she sued Howard University for racial discrimination in grad school, on the basis that she was being discriminated against because she was white.

[Paingod]

...Transrace is a term made up by ... people on this board

Lol, I never said it wasn't a word...

Now you're just transposting.

[Madmarcus]

No one said it was simple, I said it was a medical condition. It has always been a medical condition. Schizophrenia was first recognized in 1887 but didn't receive that name until later. Prior to that it was diagnosed as demons and treated by drilling holes in peoples heads. So what?

That we are still learning what causes it, whether it can be treated, whether it should be treated and whether every case is the same or if each one is unique is beside the point.

My sole point in all this is that Transrace is a term made up by non-medical people on this board and then compared to transgender, like they are somehow similarly legit.

If your point is that one day Transrace might be a recognized medical condition, well, never say never, I guess.

Transrace is not a term made up on this board (even ignoring the dictionary definition posted below).

Yes, my point is that transgender has gone from being seen as either crazy or lying (perhaps for a good purpose) to a medical diagnosis and protected status within roughly 100 years. Thus it seems crazy that you, Scuzz, ImLawBoy, Tgb, and perhaps more are so insistent that there is no comparison.

There is already a history of people obtaining plastic surgery or using makeup techniques to shift their appearance between Asian, African, or Caucasian. There is a history of people passing themselves off, more or less successfully, as one race when they are a different race (sometimes for good causes, sometimes purely because they want to identify more with the race they are presenting as).

It seems very short sighted to claim that one societal recognition of a person's desire to function as something other than what their outward biology shows is valid while a different claim is completely invalid. We already have a history of seeing race as fluid.

It doesn't really change anything about this specific case (she's lied on tons of things) but it seems to be the most interesting portion of the case anyway.

[tru1cy]

I don't mind if she wants to identify as black because I know a few men and women that are white that will only date black and that's who they identify with especially if they grew up predominately in a black neighborhood.


I think her lying about her background is the huge issue. If she just admitted she was white but identify with black then this wouldn't even register

[RunningMn9]

It is a medical condition now. It has not always been seen that way.

As pointed out by GreenGoo - my point was that gender identity disorder has always been a thing - it's just that we always haven't had a name for it, or had any effective way to treat it (so we probably just stoned them to death).

My point is just that this is fundamentally different than lying about your race because you culturally identify with another race. Which is why it's OK for reasonable people to treat them differently.

[Isgrimnur]

Were there Persians that identified as Spartans?

[RunningMn9]

Were there Persians that identified as Spartans?

Culturally?

[Isgrimnur]

Racially.

[GreenGoo]

...Transrace is a term made up by ... people on this board

Lol, I never said it wasn't a word...

Now you're just transposting.

Geezus, in the context of my posting, it should be clear that I meant it in a medical context.

While I admit that communication is a two way street, I need you guys to do a little work too.

[hepcat]

I'll go watch 300 again and let you know.

[GreenGoo]

It seems very short sighted to claim that one societal recognition of a person's desire to function as something other than what their outward biology shows is valid while a different claim is completely invalid. We already have a history of seeing race as fluid.

First, I felt that transrace comparison to transgender was a disingenuous attempt to call into question the legitimacy of transgender as a "thing".

Second, gender is much, much more integral to a person than their race.

Third, I allowed for the fact that perhaps sometime in the future, transrace will be a "thing". I am sceptical, but possibly.

Fourth, given the lack of understanding of transgender displayed here as well as the tone of the original discussion, I am not confident that people were sincerely suggesting that Transrace could be just as legitimate a diagnosis as Transgender, particularly in light of my opinion on the future viability of Transrace becoming a "thing".

Fifth, good luck with Transrace becoming a legitimate diagnosis. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that scientists/doctors are working in this area right now. It would surprise me if they find it be anything more than a cultural identification. i.e. would the woman in question identify as Black in another culture, say that of the Democratic Republic of Congo or Haiti? If not, why not?

[Combustible Lemur]

This thread is a great example of the need for a more nuanced discussion of race and ethnicity, and for that matter sex versus gender.
Sex and gender are commonly identified as two separate things. Hardware versus software.

Race and ethnicity seem similar to me. Your ethnicity is your genetic lineage.
Your race is whatever people from a region claim your skin color/ culture makes you. Ironically, race, in theory, should be maleable, it's the prejudice and harm that comes out of it that makes us defensive. It's easier to group people by melanin than behavior. Cultures change, rapidly in the modern era. Race which is a cultural construct should be able to change, within context.

[McNutt]

First, I felt that transrace comparison to transgender was a disingenuous attempt to call into question the legitimacy of transgender as a "thing".

Not at all. I have no problem with the transgender movement.

[GreenGoo]

This thread is a great example of the need for a more nuanced discussion of race and ethnicity, and for that matter sex versus gender.
Sex and gender are commonly identified as two separate things. Hardware versus software.

Race and ethnicity seem similar to me. Your ethnicity is your genetic lineage.
Your race is whatever people from a region claim your skin color/ culture makes you. Ironically, race, in theory, should be maleable, it's the prejudice and harm that comes out of it that makes us defensive. It's easier to group people by melanin than behavior. Cultures change, rapidly in the modern era. Race which is a cultural construct should be able to change, within context.

Fair enough. I would suggest that I am not the only one misusing the term "race" in this discussion, including those (I don't particularly mean here on this board) condemning her for wanting to be included in her race of choice, versus what her ethnicity is.

[Combustible Lemur]

This thread is a great example of the need for a more nuanced discussion of race and ethnicity, and for that matter sex versus gender.
Sex and gender are commonly identified as two separate things. Hardware versus software.

Race and ethnicity seem similar to me. Your ethnicity is your genetic lineage.
Your race is whatever people from a region claim your skin color/ culture makes you. Ironically, race, in theory, should be maleable, it's the prejudice and harm that comes out of it that makes us defensive. It's easier to group people by melanin than behavior. Cultures change, rapidly in the modern era. Race which is a cultural construct should be able to change, within context.

Fair enough. I would suggest that I am not the only one misusing the term "race" in this discussion, including those condemning her for wanting to be included in her race of choice, versus what her ethnicity is.

Hence why I said thread and not GreenGoo

[rshetts2]

Considering her childhood environment, upbringing and parental issues, you can not dismiss the possibility that this is a form of mental disorder and thus a medical condition. Treating this like she definitively made a choice is unfair. Its like telling a gay person they choose not to be straight. This isnt something she did to do harm and in fact it seems like its done some good. Why is this such a bad thing?
Regardless of her race, cant a person born white support the advancement of colored people? Or is the NAACP an exclusively black organization? Because if it is, is it not prejudicial by its very nature. I would think cutting her some serious slack would be in order. I am actually sorry she felt she had to resign, if the NAACP had fully embraced her and supported her and asked that she retained her position, it would have gone a long way towards demolishing negative stereotypes. I kind of feel like they missed a golden opportunity here.

disclaimer: These statements are merely my opinions and in no way define reality unless of course reality is merely a construct in my mind and none of you actually exist except as mental toys in my personal universe. Which leads me to the conclusion, I need to get better toys.

[LawBeefaroni]

Considering her childhood environment, upbringing and parental issues, you can not dismiss the possibility that this is a form of mental disorder and thus a medical condition. Treating this like she definitively made a choice is unfair. Its like telling a gay person they choose not to be straight. This isnt something she did to do harm and in fact it seems like its done some good. Why is this such a bad thing?
Regardless of her race, cant a person born white support the advancement of colored people? Or is the NAACP an exclusively black organization? Because if it is, is it not prejudicial by its very nature. I would think cutting her some serious slack would be in order. I am actually sorry she felt she had to resign, if the NAACP had fully embraced her and supported her and asked that she retained her position, it would have gone a long way towards demolishing negative stereotypes. I kind of feel like they missed a golden opportunity here.

disclaimer: These statements are merely my opinions and in no way define reality unless of course reality is merely a construct in my mind and none of you actually exist except as mental toys in my personal universe. Which leads me to the conclusion, I need to get better toys.

Yeah, there was an interview clip on the radio this morning where she said that as a kid, her self-portraits were all with brown/black crayons. Not necessarily a disorder, but a self-image thing of some sort maybe.

[Rip]

I think the parents bringing black children into the home is an obvious contributor here. She didn't start "being/acting black" until that event.

It would seem to me that this was some type of attempt to fit into the family when she started feeling like she didn't. I would imagine such a thing is somewhat common among African American kids raised in a home with all white children.

[GreenGoo]

Hence why I said thread and not GreenGoo

I edited my response to include those out in the "real" world and not just here on OO.

[GreenGoo]

Considering her childhood environment, upbringing and parental issues, you can not dismiss the possibility that this is a form of mental disorder and thus a medical condition.

I am open to the possibility that the root cause is a mental disorder. That said, I'd need a professional opinion (several, in fact) before I would think it was anything but a desire to identify with a specific race and not a compulsion or delusion to do so.

And again, to the best of my knowledge Transrace is not a recognized medical condition.

[hepcat]

It would seem to me that this was some type of attempt to fit into the family when she started feeling like she didn't. I would imagine such a thing is somewhat common among African American kids raised in a home with all white children.

Racial Munchausen, eh?

[LawBeefaroni]

Racial Munchausen? Isn't she a host on The View?

[hepcat]

You're thinking of Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

[Madmarcus]

First, I felt that transrace comparison to transgender was a disingenuous attempt to call into question the legitimacy of transgender as a "thing".

Certainly not on my part.

Third, I allowed for the fact that perhaps sometime in the future, transrace will be a "thing". I am sceptical, but possibly.

Very true. At the same time you claimed gender identity disorder was always a medical condition. I just feel it is important to point out that both societal and medical opinion on transgender issues has not been fixed. It seems unlikely that ideas about the mixture of biology and culture that is "race" will also stay fixed.

[RunningMn9]

Very true. At the same time you claimed gender identity disorder was always a medical condition.

That was me. I pointed out that GID was always a thing. Not always a recognized medical condition, but always a thing.

[Scuzz]

I don't mind if she wants to identify as black because I know a few men and women that are white that will only date black and that's who they identify with especially if they grew up predominately in a black neighborhood.


I think her lying about her background is the huge issue. If she just admitted she was white but identify with black then this wouldn't even register

Agreed. The problem, if there is one, isn't her identification as black, it is the lying about your background, who your parents are, your brothers etc. To this day she cannot just say she isn't black.

[Scuzz]

You're thinking of Rachel Maddow on MSNBC.

and while she is gay she doesn't claim to be black

[Carpet_pissr]

First, I felt that transrace comparison to transgender was a disingenuous attempt to call into question the legitimacy of transgender as a "thing".

Certainly not on my part.

Third, I allowed for the fact that perhaps sometime in the future, transrace will be a "thing". I am sceptical, but possibly.

Very true. At the same time you claimed gender identity disorder was always a medical condition. I just feel it is important to point out that both societal and medical opinion on transgender issues has not been fixed. It seems unlikely that ideas about the mixture of biology and culture that is "race" will also stay fixed.

+1

Shocked by the closed mindedness by some on the board that self identifying as a certain race is not valid, or even in the same orbit as self identifying as a certain gender! WTF man. Just because one has relatively recently been classified as a bonafide medical condition and the other not? Let's drop the fact that this particular lady lied and her extra baggage, what about a neutral case - just some John Doe that identifies as black, but according to most current societal standards/views, he is white.

That somehow gender trumps race....no contest. I don't buy the "just because" argument.

[RunningMn9]

Shocked by the closed mindedness by some on the board that self identifying as a certain race is not valid, or even in the same orbit as self identifying as a certain gender! WTF man. Just because one has relatively recently been classified as a bonafide medical condition and the other not? Let's drop the fact that this particular lady lied and her extra baggage, what about a neutral case - just some John Doe that identifies as black, but according to most current societal standards/views, he is white.

That somehow gender trumps race....no contest. I don't buy the "just because" argument.

The argument isn't "just because". There are reasons why A has been classified as a specific medical condition and the other hasn't.

[Zarathud]

Racial culture is easier to change than gender, but gender includes biological components.

I have no doubt she was effective in her role prior to the scandal -- she was highly committed to the point of being pathological in becoming part of "black culture." But I expect the NAACP reviewed her speeches and met with donors about her credibility -- and found her misrepresentations would prevent her from being effective in the future.

[Carpet_pissr]

The argument isn't "just because". There are reasons why A has been classified as a specific medical condition and the other hasn't.

Second, gender is much, much more integral to a person than their race.

[Isgrimnur]

I found something interesting in terms of context for the NAACP, racial identity, and skin color.

Consider, if you will, one retired board member, Ophelia Averitt:

Averitt was born in Demopolis, Ala. Her family moved to Mobile for fear of retaliation from whites for helping many black farmers. The family later relocated to Akron and left behind 180 acres of land and her father’s restaurant. She recalled that her family had to ride in the back of the bus on the ride to Akron.

Her mother was a civil-rights advocate and marched with the Rev. Martin Luther King Jr.
Averitt said the most tumultuous times were during the King era, but she’s also disturbed by the recent police incidents across the nation.

“We still have a long fight ahead of us with all this drama breaking out across the country with us [blacks] being the primary targets,” she said. “I’m not abandoning the ship, but just changing course. I will still help where I’m needed.”