LOTR TV series @ Amazon

[Jaymann]

They are the nine...eleven deniers.

[Carpet_pissr]

When Gandalf hurricaned the Sauron seekers, I assumed those were or related to Nazgûl. Esp since it made a point of showing them in skeletal form as they were getting their haughty butts kicked.

[Unagi]

When Gandalf hurricaned the Sauron seekers, I assumed those were or related to Nazgûl. Esp since it made a point of showing them in skeletal form as they were getting their haughty butts kicked.

??
I mean, whaaaa?

The Nazgul are the Ringwraiths, the Nine Riders, the 9 men who took the Rings of Power that were made for mortal men.

They aren't also 3 rando women.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I had thought they were connected to the Ringwraiths as well - until I saw they were all women. However, in the penultimate episode, they made a noise that was the same or similar to the screeching that the Ringwraiths did in the LotR movies.

Unless I'm hallucinating all this, then never mind. So maybe they were proto-Wraiths in the same way that we might be looking at proto-Gandalf.

[Unagi]

Yeah, Wraiths maybe... hmm..
hey - wait, I thought you said wights.

But yeah, I hear ya.
It could be said that they were the same 'thing' and that when the 9 were created, they were turned into similar beings. Like maybe the 3 queens that were turned by Sauron in another world entirely - a vanguard to his arrival.

And - yeah - that noise that was made is certainly a 'sound of Sauron'. Hello, Darkness.


When we first saw them, I sorta felt they were some Tolkienized version of 'the Fates', but I think that's not likely now.

[Blackhawk]

Minor request - could we get the title of the first post changed to reflect the real title? It makes it a little hard to find.

I finished it the other day, and, Tolkien nerd that I am, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, they're fiddling with the canon a bit, adding a few female characters (because Tolkien didn't really do female characters), adding minor plots, changing the order of things, and massively condensing timelines (there were things suggested as happening were a thousand years early. Other things were a couple of thousand.) But unlike the Lord of the Rings storyline, this was based (for the most part), on a section of the book that was just a few pages long and painted with very broad strokes, covering a much greater time period than this does. It also wasn't written to convey a story or plot, just to fill in past events. Where Wheel of Time is handling two massive novels per season, Rings of Power is fleshing out a few paragraphs per season! And remember, they can't use anything in other books, including the Silmarillion. I assume that they have some flexibility to use a few things from the books proper, like characters and place names.

But the show was fun, more so than I expected (I honestly dreaded five season of elves discussing important matters in front of a scenic backdrop.)

A few comments on the Star Man.

Spoiler:

All we know is that he's an Istar, and that he showed up early (and apparently missed the boat he was supposed to arrive on with the other wizards.) That narrows it down to three possible characters: Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast.

Yes, there are five Istari. Alatar and Pallando (the two blue wizards) would be fun to work with, but they don't occur anywhere in the material that Amazon has the rights to. They exist only in Tokien's published unfinished writings.

It is unlikely that it is Radagast. It just wouldn't make sense to use that particular character for this story.

Saruman is possible. Saruman was a good guy for thousands of years, as much a good guy as Gandalf, until he became obsessed with Sauron, and eventually fell under his sway due to his misuse of the Palantir. I think giving his character more depth by showing who he was before he fell would be great storytelling.

But it's Gandalf, almost certainly. He's the known character that most viewers will be excited about. The other two are established in the non-readers' minds as a villain and a goofball. Gandalf always had a connection with hobbits. And he uses Gandalf's own quotes:

Stranger:
"When in doubt, Elanor Brandyfoot, always follow your nose"
Gandalf:
"If in doubt, Meriadoc, always follow your nose"

It's probably the clearest non-reveal out there.

[hepcat]

Please change the thread title to Wheel of Time Knockoff @ Amazon.

[Blackhawk]

If this is the Wheel of Time knockoff, then what's Wheel of Time?

[McNutt]

A knockoff of Fast and Furious.

[hepcat]

If this is the Wheel of Time knockoff, then what's Wheel of Time?

A Xena knockoff.

[$iljanus]

If this is the Wheel of Time knockoff, then what's Wheel of Time?

A Xena knockoff.

Just another clone of the Illiad.

[hepcat]

The Iliad is just a knockoff of that Brad Pitt film, Troy.

[Blackhawk]

The Iliad is just a knockoff of that Brad Pitt film, Troy.

World War Z is just a knockoff of Starship Troopers.

And don't call me Troy.

[hepcat]

[Lassr]

Minor request - could we get the title of the first post changed to reflect the real title? It makes it a little hard to find.

I finished it the other day, and, Tolkien nerd that I am, I really enjoyed it. Yeah, they're fiddling with the canon a bit, adding a few female characters (because Tolkien didn't really do female characters), adding minor plots, changing the order of things, and massively condensing timelines (there were things suggested as happening were a thousand years early. Other things were a couple of thousand.) But unlike the Lord of the Rings storyline, this was based (for the most part), on a section of the book that was just a few pages long and painted with very broad strokes, covering a much greater time period than this does. It also wasn't written to convey a story or plot, just to fill in past events. Where Wheel of Time is handling two massive novels per season, Rings of Power is fleshing out a few paragraphs per season! And remember, they can't use anything in other books, including the Silmarillion. I assume that they have some flexibility to use a few things from the books proper, like characters and place names.

But the show was fun, more so than I expected (I honestly dreaded five season of elves discussing important matters in front of a scenic backdrop.)

A few comments on the Star Man.

Spoiler:

All we know is that he's an Istar, and that he showed up early (and apparently missed the boat he was supposed to arrive on with the other wizards.) That narrows it down to three possible characters: Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast.

Yes, there are five Istari. Alatar and Pallando (the two blue wizards) would be fun to work with, but they don't occur anywhere in the material that Amazon has the rights to. They exist only in Tokien's published unfinished writings.

It is unlikely that it is Radagast. It just wouldn't make sense to use that particular character for this story.

Saruman is possible. Saruman was a good guy for thousands of years, as much a good guy as Gandalf, until he became obsessed with Sauron, and eventually fell under his sway due to his misuse of the Palantir. I think giving his character more depth by showing who he was before he fell would be great storytelling.

But it's Gandalf, almost certainly. He's the known character that most viewers will be excited about. The other two are established in the non-readers' minds as a villain and a goofball. Gandalf always had a connection with hobbits. And he uses Gandalf's own quotes:

Stranger:
"When in doubt, Elanor Brandyfoot, always follow your nose"
Gandalf:
"If in doubt, Meriadoc, always follow your nose"

It's probably the clearest non-reveal out there.

I just started the first 2 episodes tonight and really enjoyed them. Looking forward to watching the rest over the next few weeks (I'm not a binge watcher).

[$iljanus]

The Iliad is just a knockoff of that Brad Pitt film, Troy.

World War Z is just a knockoff of Starship Troopers.

And don't call me Troy.

The copyright lawyers representing Mr. Gilgamesh would like a word…

[Holman]

The Iliad is just a knockoff of that Brad Pitt film, Troy.

World War Z is just a knockoff of Starship Troopers.

And don't call me Troy.

The copyright lawyers representing Mr. Gilgamesh would like a word…

What's funny is that Tolkien's LOTR first appeared in the USA (and won the love of the hippies) in a pirated unauthorized edition from Ace Books. Those of us who read LOTR in later-published authorized editions were treated to a bitchy introductory note in which JRRT complains about this.

[Max Peck]

I finally remembered to watch the last few episodes this week. As is often the case for me, I was enjoying it, got distracted by something shiny and never got around to finishing it (until now). I enjoyed it and am looking forward to the next season. And I might have a bit of a crush on Young Galadriel.

Spoiler:

I'm not sure why the alt-right folks hate the show so much. Sure, it's got elves that aren't white and women who aren't just in the background, but they have to love Sauron. He's a good guy, trying to do the right thing, but then he's jilted by a woman who doesn't know her place by his side (and perhaps one step back). He's one of them!

Sauron is an incel.

A few comments on the Star Man.

Spoiler:

All we know is that he's an Istar, and that he showed up early (and apparently missed the boat he was supposed to arrive on with the other wizards.) That narrows it down to three possible characters: Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast.

Yes, there are five Istari. Alatar and Pallando (the two blue wizards) would be fun to work with, but they don't occur anywhere in the material that Amazon has the rights to. They exist only in Tokien's published unfinished writings.

It is unlikely that it is Radagast. It just wouldn't make sense to use that particular character for this story.

Saruman is possible. Saruman was a good guy for thousands of years, as much a good guy as Gandalf, until he became obsessed with Sauron, and eventually fell under his sway due to his misuse of the Palantir. I think giving his character more depth by showing who he was before he fell would be great storytelling.

But it's Gandalf, almost certainly. He's the known character that most viewers will be excited about. The other two are established in the non-readers' minds as a villain and a goofball. Gandalf always had a connection with hobbits. And he uses Gandalf's own quotes:

Stranger:
"When in doubt, Elanor Brandyfoot, always follow your nose"
Gandalf:
"If in doubt, Meriadoc, always follow your nose"

It's probably the clearest non-reveal out there.

+1

Spoiler:

I do hope that they introduce Saruman at some point as well, though. Portraying him as a good and wise character who surpasses even Gandalf would serve to frame his fall in the 3rd Age as a tragedy.

[Smoove_B]

And I might have a bit of a crush on Young Galadriel.

I was absolutely enraptured by the actress. Like...distractedly beautiful. I've been told she has the looks of someone that is Welsh but I can't say I've ever noticed something like that before. I absolutely believed she was an Elf.

[Blackhawk]

Spoiler:

I'm not sure why the alt-right folks hate the show so much. Sure, it's got elves that aren't white and women who aren't just in the background, but they have to love Sauron. He's a good guy, trying to do the right thing, but then he's jilted by a woman who doesn't know her place by his side (and perhaps one step back). He's one of them!

Sauron is an incel.

There are, canonically, three different races (subraces? subspecies?) of elves in Middle Earth. Unlike Wheel of Time, this one isn't really contradicting anything meaningful at all. People need to get the phlumph over it.

[Sudy]

I've been told she has the looks of someone that is Welsh but I can't say I've ever noticed something like that before.

Hmm yes I see the resemblance....

[Max Peck]

Counterpoint:

[Sudy]

Got those concave Welsh shins.

[Smoove_B]

The Rings Of Power returns August 29 on Prime Video.

The comments section of the Youtube video is comedy gold

[Holman]

It's fashionable to hate on TLOTR:TROP, but that trailer does make me want to give it a chance.

[Blackhawk]

It's still better than half of the other fantasy fare out there.

[Smoove_B]

I'm probably not the target audience as a casual LotR fan, but I'm going to watch them as they air, without question. It would have to be absolutely terrible for me to not view this.

[Kurth]

It's still better than half of the other fantasy fare out there.

I really liked the first season. It's not perfect by any stretch, but I enjoyed it. Very much looking forward to the second season.

[hepcat]

It's still better than half of the other fantasy fare out there.

That’s not really a compliment…or a convincing argument as to its worth.

I’ll watch, but I’ll be wearing a wig too.

[EvilHomer3k]

It's still better than half of the other fantasy fare out there.

I really liked the first season. It's not perfect by any stretch, but I enjoyed it. Very much looking forward to the second season.

Exactly my thoughts. I found it to be pretty good overall. Not as good as the Witcher but still pretty solid. I hate watched The Walking Dead for 4 years just for the few episodes of greatness (and a lot of WTF were the writers thinking). This is way better than that, at least so far.

[YellowKing]

My only complaint with the first season is that it felt reallllly slow. Lots of talk and politics and people in rooms talking about politics. It was a bit of a slog to get through. Outside of that, I thought it was well done, the writing/casting/production value I had no issue with.

Hopefully the S2 trailer is representative of a more action-y season, and they didn't just pull out all the good parts that didn't involve blathering on about elves and dwarves not getting along.

[Holman]

My only complaint with the first season is that it felt reallllly slow. Lots of talk and politics and people in rooms talking about politics. It was a bit of a slog to get through. Outside of that, I thought it was well done, the writing/casting/production value I had no issue with.

Hopefully the S2 trailer is representative of a more action-y season, and they didn't just pull out all the good parts that didn't involve blathering on about elves and dwarves not getting along.

Tell me you haven't read THE SILMARILLION without telling me you haven't read THE SILMARILLION.

[Blackhawk]

Thus began the first battle of the Valar with Melkor for the dominion of Arda; and of those tumults the Elves know but little. For what has here been declared is come from the Valar themselves, with whom the Eldalië spoke in the land of Valinor, and by whom they were instructed; but little would the Valar ever tell of the wars before the coming of the Elves. Yet it is told among the Eldar that the Valar endeavoured ever, in despite of Melkor, to rule the Earth and to prepare it for the coming of the Firstborn; and they built lands and Melkor destroyed them; valleys they delved and Melkor raised them up; mountains they carved and Melkor threw them down; seas they hollowed and Melkor spilled them; and naught might have peace or come to lasting growth, for as surely as the Valar began a labour so would Melkor undo it or corrupt it. And yet their labour was not all in vain; and though nowhere and in no work was their will and purpose wholly
fulfilled, and all things were in hue and shape other than the Valar had at first intended, slowly nonetheless the Earth was fashioned and made firm. And thus was the habitation of the Children of Ilúvatar established at the last in the Deeps of Time and amidst the innumerable stars.

The Silmarillion reads like an archaic history book. It's got some great stories, but damn is that thing a slog at times. It is very general, and describes the larger events without ever detailing most of them, which would leave a lot of wiggle room for writing shows. As it happens, though, Amazon doesn't have the rights to the Silmarillion. As I recall, the entire series is based on two or three equally vague pages from the appendix of the Return of the King.