The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Archinerd]

Yeah. I’m pissed. And frustrated.
My daughter’s school district announced they were going optional as a result of the temporary ruling on the mandate in schools.

I want to write the superintendent a scathing email, but I know it’s pointless.

One of my co-workers is letting his 6 year old decide for himself.
What could go wrong when each individual kid gets to make a "personal" public health decision?

[LawBeefaroni]

What could go wrong when each individual kid gets to make a "personal" public health decision?

Well, at least it's an apt metaphor for how the US is handling the situation.

[Isgrimnur]

Including temper tantrums.

[Smoove_B]

I totally understand (but don't agree with) people railing against vaccinations, particularly newly developed ones and certainly when kids are involved. But masks? WTF is your actual objection to wearing a mask? I know we've joked about it, but is handwashing next? Masks FFS!

I can't today.

[Isgrimnur]

[malchior]

But masks? WTF is your actual objection to wearing a mask? I know we've joked about it, but is handwashing next? Masks FFS!I can't today.

It all feelings based. There is nothing substantive about it. Folks don't like masks or whatever axe they have to grind because they are uncomfortable or minorly inconvenient. Or their political universe was against them to begin with. Perhaps it makes them feel like things aren't "normal". And from that pool of feelings they can find entire social media platforms/communities that'll validate that feeling and harden them against the people who don't feel the same way. And I wish it was only masks. The future feels pretty grim as we watch this get worse and worse.

[Grifman]

Things aren’t much better for our northern neighbors - Ottawa is under siege from truckers protesting Covid restrictions, while the govt appears inept and powerless:

[malchior]

I've heard at only a rumor mill level that far right-wing extremist elements in the United States are funding them at some level. GoFundMe cancelled a pledge drive that raised $8M for them citing terms of service violations - which led to DeSantis and other GOP officials to announce investigations. This is what not stamping down extremist behavior got us. We might now exporting it to our neighbors.

After being denied several million dollars raised on GoFundMe, organizers of a trucker-led protest disrupting life in Canada’s capital have found a new platform: a Christian crowdfunding site where they raised more than $3.5 million in two days to demonstrate against the country’s vaccine mandate.

The new fundraiser hosted by GiveSendGo, which describes itself as the “#1 free Christian crowdfunding site,” reported Sunday that the “Freedom Convoy” campaign had raised several million dollars two days after GoFundMe announced that it was freezing more than $8 million in donations to the cause, a move that led Republican officials in the United States to announce investigations.

The rapid influxes of donations have prompted questions about the origin of the funds and sparked concerns among analysts about the use of the online platforms for financing fringe organizations that could allow the interference of foreign entities.

[LawBeefaroni]

Lots of astroturfing going on and a fair amount of American flags flying.

Best part, they're apparently attacking ambulances carrying patients. I guess paramedics are scabs?

Paramedics asked for police escorts over the weekend after at least two ambulances were pelted with rocks and protesters who appeared to be part of the truck convoy yelled racial slurs at one paramedic when he got out to check for damage.

...

In addition to throwing rocks, she said some apparent protesters were belligerent and tried to slow ambulances down.

“For the first couple of days (of the protests), they felt, not that their lives were threatened, but they didn’t feel safe like in a Canada Day situation,” she said.

Once paramedics got a greater police presence around their vehicles and escorts for those on foot, things improved, she said

.

[Unagi]

I totally understand (but don't agree with) people railing against vaccinations, particularly newly developed ones and certainly when kids are involved. But masks? WTF is your actual objection to wearing a mask? I know we've joked about it, but is handwashing next? Masks FFS!

I can't today.

Yeah, I spoke with my daughter before school. I'm sure kids are going to be asking each other why they are or are not wearing masks... I told her we have three main reasons we are still going with the masks (and she agreed): they are not that big of a burden, they absolutely do help stop the spread of covid, and we do care about other people.

I must say, it looks like an uphill battle, and I seriously hope that covid complies with the next iteration being "even less" because if it reverts back to a deadly form that keeps its vaccine-shrug abilities, I don't like to think...

[Octavious]

Well at my daughters school there will probably be two people wearing masks after this mandate is lifted. We're so dead red in my area that they will probably hold a mask burning rally when the order expires.

[Smoove_B]

Unofficially if you go on social media for NJ, there are quite a few parents saying this is madness. I don't think it will be as black and white as I originally thought in our Red area. It will, however, require that parents speak out and speak up. Superintendents are about to earn their 185K+ (average) annual salaries, that's for sure. And can't wait to see how bonkers the hundreds NJ BOE meetings will be.

I don't know who has the Governor's ear, but F that person (or group). This is easily one of the worst decisions he could have made.

[Smoove_B]

So let me get this straight: The Canadian women's hockey team wore N95 masks while easily beating Russia 6-1 at the Olympics...but some people are so inconvenienced by having to wear a mask that they're holding the city of Ottawa under siege & claiming it's all about "freedom?"

As mentioned last year, I was wearing a KN94 during my treadmill heart stress test. It sucked, but I I had it on the entire time - including the 10 minutes it took for me afterwards to get back to a normal breathing rate.

[El Guapo]

Unofficially if you go on social media for NJ, there are quite a few parents saying this is madness. I don't think it will be as black and white as I originally thought in our Red area. It will, however, require that parents speak out and speak up. Superintendents are about to earn their 185K+ (average) annual salaries, that's for sure. And can't wait to see how bonkers the hundreds NJ BOE meetings will be.

I don't know who has the Governor's ear, but F that person (or group). This is easily one of the worst decisions he could have made.

It is pretty mind boggling. And I already got a NYT app alert on my phone about it which read essentially "The NJ Governor, a Democrat, Has Ended the Mask Mandate in His State". So it won't just hurt NJ, it'll also wind up putting pressure on other states, as people will say "See? Even Democrats admit that we don't need a mask mandate."

[YellowKing]

Bravo to my local county school board which has somehow maintained the school mask mandates despite all the political winds blowing against them.

P.S. Our hospital just hit the highest numbers it's had for in-house Covid patients since the start of the pandemic. Back to normal!

[Isgrimnur]

[Smoove_B]

It is pretty mind boggling. And I already got a NYT app alert on my phone about it which read essentially "The NJ Governor, a Democrat, Has Ended the Mask Mandate in His State". So it won't just hurt NJ, it'll also wind up putting pressure on other states, as people will say "See? Even Democrats admit that we don't need a mask mandate."

That's why I think this is coordinated and you're going to see other NE states announcing the same this week. I think they're getting pressure from (D) facing midterms and the 2024 elections - that "holdouts" in charge are making their chances of re-election (local all the way up to federal) more difficult. So take the least evil option and kick it down to locals, and let them fight each other over it so the larger (D) party can maintain political distance.

All of this is so very fuct up.

[malchior]

I don't know who has the Governor's ear, but F that person (or group). This is easily one of the worst decisions he could have made.

Murphy has spent his whole life serving the oligarch class and getting filthy rich in the process. I am not surprised. He is emblematic of the rot. On top he has been awful at getting anything done. Maybe this will buy him some capital to get any of his failed initiatives to move forward but I doubt it. He is awful.

[malchior]

I mean really? We live in a deeply corrupt society. What happens if we have a massive wave in June? We just shrug. Reckless beyond belief. I'm fed up. Completely fed up.

[LawBeefaroni]

We may or may not get a next "wave" and/or a new varient. To prematurely declare that we are at the end[emic] already and rule out any future mitigation is weakfuckingsauce.


Here's one: "We will never manage CRIME to zero. We have to learn to live with CRIME as we move from a pandemic to endemic phase of this social ill." Replace with whatever you want. It's absurd.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, he's helping me figure out who has been filling his ear by incorrectly characterizing public health's goal as trying to reduce COVID-19 to zero. I am confident if that's what he's been hearing from the "Urgency of Normal" crowd, of course that position seems unreasonable.

Also, trying to normalize 900K+ deaths and ~2500 daily deaths in the U.S. is really something.

[Kraken]

Last night I dreamed that I walked into the grocery store and was the only person wearing a mask. Half of the people pointed at me and laughed, half started shouting threats, and half turned their backs and shunned me. It was a dream so I can have as many halves as I want. I was simultaneously confused, embarrassed, and angry, and didn't know if I should give in and take mine off. I don't remember what I did; the plot probably shifted at that point, as dreams do.

I probably won't be the LAST Masshole to keep wearing a mask in public, but it's going to be a long time before I'm comfortable without one.

[naednek]

Finally, Smoove can breathe a sigh of relief.

N.J. Governor to End School Mask Mandate in Move to ‘Normalcy’

What an absolute shitshow.

New Jersey Gov. Phil Murphy will announce Monday a timeline to end the state's school mask mandate next month, his office told CNN. The policy will allow students and school officials to be unmasked as of March, two years after the pandemic gripped the country and the region.
Murphy first spoke to the New York Times about his planned announcement. The governor and officials are scheduled to hold a 1 p.m. coronavirus briefing Monday.

Thankfully the virus also follows a structured timeline, so using a calendar date to remove mask requirements makes total goddamn sense.

For reference, only 1 out of 3 kids in NJ (school age) has received at least a single COVID-19 vaccination.

I want to write the superintendent a scathing email, but I know it’s pointless.

I wrote a...polite email to my local superintendent back in December, urging him to consider a temporary school closure. He never wrote back.

California just announced Feb 15th. People who are vaccinated must still wear a mask. But who is going to check?

[malchior]

Yeah, he's helping me figure out who has been filling his ear by incorrectly characterizing public health's goal as trying to reduce COVID-19 to zero. I am confident if that's what he's been hearing from the "Urgency of Normal" crowd, of course that position seems unreasonable.

Also, trying to normalize 900K+ deaths and ~2500 daily deaths in the U.S. is really something.

What I'm hearing is that he did it because the very serious people in the administration and the DNC are pressuring all Dem governors to lift mask restrictions in preparation for the ... mid-terms. I've only heard it from some small fish but I wish I didn't think that was possible.

[hepcat]

Fox Hack: here are the unhealthiest places in America…all run by democrats!

Reality: that’s a list of the healthiest places in America.

[Defiant]

Last night I dreamed that I walked into the grocery store and was the only person wearing a mask. Half of the people pointed at me and laughed, half started shouting threats, and half turned their backs and shunned me.

To be fair, they weren't laughing at you because you were wearing a mask, they were laughing at you because you didn't wear anything else other than your underwear in your dream.

[Smoove_B]

What I'm hearing is that he did it because the very serious people in the administration and the DNC are pressuring all Dem governors to lift mask restrictions in preparation for the ... mid-terms. I've only heard it from some small fish but I wish I didn't think that was possible.

Exhibit B

We’ve made considerable progress against Covid. Infection rates have dramatically dropped and folks across CT have many tools on hand to keep themselves safe. That’s why, as of February 28th, school and childcare mask mandates will be decided by school districts, not the state.

[Alefroth]

When public health became private health.

[Smoove_B]

So glad to be alive and part of public health during the dumbest timeline:

Seventeen Georgia state senators have proposed a new bill aimed at getting rid of all routine childhood vaccination requirements.

The bill was drafted on Jan. 14 and in it, the senators hope to make it illegal to check proof of vaccination. Right now, there are eight vaccines required by the Georgia Department of Health. This includes shots to prevent diseases like measles, mumps and chickenpox.

[LawBeefaroni]

This could probably go in a dozen R&P threads but the GOP is attacking on all sides and the Dems are fetal in the foxhole. They have absolutely no playbook for any of this.

[Zaxxon]

the Dems have absolutely no playbook

FTFY.

[Kasey Chang]

Latest Aussie study shows that antivaxxers value "purity" and "liberty" with low respect for "authority".

Conclusion is we should provide incentives for vaccination rather than punish those who don't.

[raydude]

Latest Aussie study shows that antivaxxers value "purity" and "liberty" with low respect for "authority".

Conclusion is we should provide incentives for vaccination rather than punish those who don't.

If you're vaccinated (or unvaccinated purely because of immunocompromised reasons) you get access to hospital care?

[Kraken]

Latest Aussie study shows that antivaxxers value "purity" and "liberty" with low respect for "authority".

Conclusion is we should provide incentives for vaccination rather than punish those who don't.

If you're vaccinated (or unvaccinated purely because of immunocompromised reasons) you get access to hospital care?

Locally, some dude was denied heart transplant eligibility because he refuses to get vaccinated. The hospital doesn't want to waste an organ on somebody whose post-surgery immunosuppressants will put him at high risk of dying from covid. He just doesn't believe in vaccines and would literally rather die than take one. Which would be fine with me, but of course he's drawn a group of supporters who are out protesting in front of the hospital every day.

I'd be fine with putting the willfully unvaxxed at the bottom of the list for access to hospital beds. I suspect that a lot of medical workers feel the same way.

[Zarathud]

We may or may not get a next "wave" and/or a new varient. To prematurely declare that we are at the end[emic] already and rule out any future mitigation is weakfuckingsauce.


Here's one: "We will never manage CRIME to zero. We have to learn to live with CRIME as we move from a pandemic to endemic phase of this social ill." Replace with whatever you want. It's absurd.

We will never manage ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION to zero. We have to learn to live with ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION as we move from a pandemic to endemic phase of this social ill.

Mortoned

[Skinypupy]

It hurts to be this blindingly stupid, right?

Over 70% of Americans who died with COVID, died on Medicare, and some people want #MedicareForAll ?

[Kurth]

I totally understand (but don't agree with) people railing against vaccinations, particularly newly developed ones and certainly when kids are involved. But masks? WTF is your actual objection to wearing a mask? I know we've joked about it, but is handwashing next? Masks FFS!

I can't today.

It’s interesting that David Leonhardt took a somewhat opposite view on The Daily the other day re vaccine/boosters/masks, offering the perspective that for many Americans, vaccines and boosters are (or should be) a no-brainer, but masks impact them in a real way and present real costs.

He discussed that further in his column yesterday, The Mask Debate.

Communal risk

If you scroll through social media, you will find no shortage of people proclaiming that mask wearing is easy for them. I don’t doubt it. But it is not so easy for many other people, including young children, people with learning disabilities and people who are hard of hearing.
The poll found that many Democrats, especially younger Democrats, seem to be overstating their personal risk from Covid. In response, some readers argued that exaggerating individual risk is actually a good thing, because it leads to more support for Covid mitigation policies, like mask mandates and limits on public gatherings.

The real problem, according to this view, is that the U.S. has done too little to protect people from Covid; if exaggerating individual risk can reduce Covid’s communal risk, isn’t that a good thing?

There is some logic to this line of thinking, because the U.S. has indeed done too little to battle Covid. But the argument depends on the assumption that almost all Covid restrictions improve public health, and that isn’t necessarily true. Nearly every restriction has both benefits and costs. The question is, when do the benefits outweigh the costs?

With the vaccines and boosters, the answer is clear. The benefits (a huge reduction in the risk of death, hospitalization and other symptoms) vastly outweigh the costs (a day or two of potentially feeling crummy). With many other mitigation strategies, however, the answer is murkier. The disruption and isolation of the past two years have contributed to increases in educational inequality, mental-health problems, blood pressure, drug overdoses, violent crime and other serious ills.

Masks are an intriguing tool because they allow people to be together while also protecting themselves. Yet a growing number of Americans are nonetheless deciding that the costs of masks often fall short of the benefits, especially in schools.

. . .

The bottom line

The evidence suggests that the benefits of mandated school masking are modest and that the costs are meaningful for some children, particularly after two years of pandemic life. This combination suggests that the removal of statewide mandates will probably do more good than harm, given that Covid cases are now plummeting.

But there is an important caveat: If another big Covid wave comes — and it may — the argument for a temporary return of masking will become stronger. When hospitals are overwhelmed, even small differences in caseloads can save lives. Different moments call for different Covid policies.

I coach a high school mock trial team. They’re a great group of kids, and they’ve really done well in the past. Last year, our scrappy group of public schoolers went up against the usual elite private schools in our region, and they excelled. They won the regional competition, and then they went on to win the state competition and were sent to Nationals representing Oregon. Of course, they weren’t really “sent” anywhere because everything was remote, but they were psyched nonetheless.

This year, the competition is a mix of remote and in-person with masks. It’s a stupid and irrational hodgepodge, determined by what county you live in. Most of this year, we’ve been practicing in person, in masks, at school preparing for a live competition. The results have not been good so far. The kids have a hard time speaking clearly through their masks. They have a hard time understanding each other during questioning. And a ton of the experience is just . . . lost. So much of what we try to encourage, especially in our witnesses, is for them to try to embody the character and bring the character to life. It’s a fine line between mock trial and drama already, but the challenge is ten fold when they’re trying to be expressive and wearing a mask that covers up 75% of their faces. They are doing their best, but, in all honesty, it sucks for them.

This past week, my son, who’s a senior in high school, had his final swim meet. Most of the parents show up to support the kids, who were limited to inviting two guests a piece. Even with limits on attendance, the indoor pool facility isn’t large, and the bleachers were jam packed. It was probably 85 degrees in there with 100% humidity. Within minutes, people were sweating through their masks and having to go outside regularly to get a breath of fresh air and a moment of reprieve from the heat. Lots of parents ended up leaving. It sucked.

At work, we began onboarding a new member of our team this week. We’re all meeting her for the first time, trying to get to know her a bit and welcome her to our team. Meeting someone and trying to make that connection is so much more difficult with a mask on. The challenge of understanding someone with a different dialect when you can’t match up what they’re saying with their facial expressions is significant. Add to that the fact that I’m hard of hearing after spending too many years listening to music way too loud, and it can be really, really difficult to communicate. It makes for a very frustrating experience for all involved.

I know that relative to death, these are not significant costs. But they are costs. There are costs to wearing masks, and it’s dishonest to make like that’s not the case. Even if you don’t feel those costs personally, a significant number of other people do. I feel like debating whether it’s time to take off masks makes sense. Look at the data, analyze the trends, examine the case studies and examples from other populations. But the debate needs to take as a given that continuing to mandate masks is not a cost-free decision.

#pleasedonthatemesmoove

[Isgrimnur]

[raydude]

It hurts to be this blindingly stupid, right?

Over 70% of Americans who died with COVID, died on Medicare, and some people want #MedicareForAll ?

I'm taking this to mean he's saying "Fuck those fucking takers! No Medicaid for anyone!" Which is really horrendous.

[Zaxxon]

I know that relative to death, these are not significant costs. But they are costs. There are costs to wearing masks, and it’s dishonest to make like that’s not the case. Even if you don’t feel those costs personally, a significant number of other people do. I feel like debating whether it’s time to take off masks makes sense. Look at the data, analyze the trends, examine the case studies and examples from other populations. But the debate needs to take as a given that continuing to mandate masks is not a cost-free decision.

#pleasedonthatemesmoove

Amen. I don't think that the end result of that discussion will be 'yeah, it's pretty clearly time to remove masks.' Not while we still have positivity rates where they are. But it's absolutely something that should be discussed.