Octopus Overlords

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:59 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:56 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:44 pmUnless I seriously misunderstand how smart meters work (I've never seen one), when energy demand suddenly spikes, how many people are going to be checking their meter/rate every hour?

People like my wife. (crazy people)

Many (most?) people do not. My wife had to call her sister to remind her that she had a variable rate plan and her current rate was INSANELY high, so for the love of god turn off everything you don't absolutely need.

Which kills the plan. Now maybe if they made a free app (that actually worked) that showed rates in real time and threw up a notification if it ever went over X (or just had green/yellow/red status), they might make a dent.

I don't think you understand the guiding principle is "personal responsibility". (only half snark)

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:02 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:59 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:56 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:46 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 12:44 pmUnless I seriously misunderstand how smart meters work (I've never seen one), when energy demand suddenly spikes, how many people are going to be checking their meter/rate every hour?

People like my wife. (crazy people)

Many (most?) people do not. My wife had to call her sister to remind her that she had a variable rate plan and her current rate was INSANELY high, so for the love of god turn off everything you don't absolutely need.

Which kills the plan. Now maybe if they made a free app (that actually worked) that showed rates in real time and threw up a notification if it ever went over X (or just had green/yellow/red status), they might make a dent.

I don't think you understand the guiding principle is "personal responsibility". (only half snark)

I absolutely do, and I'm a big believer in it. But when you're basing your crisis response plan on it you have to balance it with 'human nature.'

You can't rely on people being smart or conscientious as a way to handle a crisis. See also: 2020.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:14 pm

I misunderstood, I think. I thought the talk was about avoiding the big bills. It seems you were talking about the plan to actually save the grid.

FWIW, I think your app idea is way better than whatever they have going on right now (he says without knowing what they have going on right now).

Mr. Hogan, a professor of global energy policy at Harvard’s Kennedy School, acknowledged that while many Texans have struggled this week without heat and electricity, the state’s energy market has functioned as it was designed.

That design relies on basic economics: When electricity demand increases, so too does the price for power. The higher prices force consumers to reduce energy use to prevent cascading failures of power plants that could leave the entire state in the dark, while encouraging power plants to generate more electricity.

“It’s not convenient,” Professor Hogan said. “It’s not nice. It’s necessary.”

Still, the rules of economics offered little comfort for Andrea Ramos after the lights went out in her home in Austin around 2 a.m. on Monday.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm Result? We have the honor of one of our largest metro areas being dubbed ‘most dangerous place in the US to live wrt CoVid’ (Greenville).

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:12 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm Result? We have the honor of one of our largest metro areas being dubbed ‘most dangerous place in the US to live wrt CoVid’ (Greenville).

Thank you, thank you, thank you. We really couldn't have done it had we been lazy and stayed at home.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm Result? We have the honor of one of our largest metro areas being dubbed ‘most dangerous place in the US to live wrt CoVid’ (Greenville).

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:29 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:14 pm

I misunderstood, I think. I thought the talk was about avoiding the big bills. It seems you were talking about the plan to actually save the grid.

FWIW, I think your app idea is way better than whatever they have going on right now (he says without knowing what they have going on right now).

It got lost in quote stacking. The original comment, from a NYT article,

Mr. Hogan, a professor of global energy policy at Harvard’s Kennedy School, acknowledged that while many Texans have struggled this week without heat and electricity, the state’s energy market has functioned as it was designed.

That design relies on basic economics: When electricity demand increases, so too does the price for power. The higher prices force consumers to reduce energy use to prevent cascading failures of power plants that could leave the entire state in the dark, while encouraging power plants to generate more electricity.

“It’s not convenient,” Professor Hogan said. “It’s not nice. It’s necessary.”

Still, the rules of economics offered little comfort for Andrea Ramos after the lights went out in her home in Austin around 2 a.m. on Monday.

They're trying to avoid power failures with measures that rely on the general public being informed and proactive.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 2:43 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:37 pm Result? We have the honor of one of our largest metro areas being dubbed ‘most dangerous place in the US to live wrt CoVid’ (Greenville).

I guess I need to remove your community from my class.

Blackhawk wrote:

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 1:14 pm

I misunderstood, I think. I thought the talk was about avoiding the big bills. It seems you were talking about the plan to actually save the grid.

FWIW, I think your app idea is way better than whatever they have going on right now (he says without knowing what they have going on right now).

It got lost in quote stacking. The original comment, from a NYT article,

Mr. Hogan, a professor of global energy policy at Harvard’s Kennedy School, acknowledged that while many Texans have struggled this week without heat and electricity, the state’s energy market has functioned as it was designed.

That design relies on basic economics: When electricity demand increases, so too does the price for power. The higher prices force consumers to reduce energy use to prevent cascading failures of power plants that could leave the entire state in the dark, while encouraging power plants to generate more electricity.

“It’s not convenient,” Professor Hogan said. “It’s not nice. It’s necessary.”

Still, the rules of economics offered little comfort for Andrea Ramos after the lights went out in her home in Austin around 2 a.m. on Monday.

They're trying to avoid power failures with measures that rely on the general public being informed and proactive.

$iljanus wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 3:52 pmHey, Texas is the state of "personal responsibility" vs Socialist paternalism. Think on that as you burn your Cowboys shirts to keep warm....

The problems causing millions of customers to go more than 24 hours without power during some of the coldest days on record can’t be blamed on issues like wind turbines freezing, said Ed Hirs, a University of Houston Energy Fellow and professor of energy economics.

Instead, they have everything to do with how the system is structured in Texas, Hirs said.

“In the state’s enthusiasm for deregulating the electric market, the legislature and then-Gov. George Bush re-created an old-style Soviet Union purchasing bureau, called ERCOT,” Hirs said.

The Electric Reliability Council of Texas, or ERCOT, is charged with overseeing the state’s power grid. Texas receives most of its power via the Texas Interconnection, a power grid separate from the rest of the country.

...

“We must cut through the finger-pointing and hear directly from stakeholders about the factors that contributed to generation staying down at a time when families needed it most,” Phelan said.

Hirs, meanwhile, audibly laughed when asked when he thought the system might return to normal.

Texas’ power grid for years has suffered because generators that were unable to earn a return on capital went offline, and there was little incentive to reinvest and keep equipment in good working condition, Hirs said.

“They’ve structured everything the wrong way, and it’s come home to roost,” Hirs said.

Even now, there’s every incentive for generators to hold back on power because they make more during emergencies, Hirs said.

“Why would you put all your generation capacity online, available to the grid, if you’re only going to get a lower price?” Hirs said.

Former Texas governor Rick Perry suggests that going days without power is a sacrifice Texans should be willing to make if it means keeping federal regulators out of the state’s power grid.

In a blog posted on House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy's website, Perry is quoted responding to the claim that “those watching on the left may see the situation in Texas as an opportunity to expand their top-down, radical proposals.”

“Texans would be without electricity for longer than three days to keep the federal government out of their business,” Perry is quoted as saying. “Try not to let whatever the crisis of the day is take your eye off of having a resilient grid that keeps America safe personally, economically, and strategically.”

“Try not to let whatever the crisis of the day is take your eye off of having a resilient grid that keeps America safe personally, economically, and strategically.”

Market activity and power outages in parts of the country have led to longer than expected phone wait and processing times. Visit our Help Center for ways you can self-service.

"those watching on the left may see the situation in Texas as an opportunity to expand their top-down, radical proposals.”

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 6:22 pm I for one am grateful that Perry made this point. I don't think Democrats could frame the issue better if they tried.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:46 pm OK Texans, are you feeling/believing/thinking your grid is resilient, keeping America safe personally, economically, and strategically?

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:11 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 5:46 pm OK Texans, are you feeling/believing/thinking your grid is resilient, keeping America safe personally, economically, and strategically?

Our grid is designed for our climate. It generally functions quite well. It is certainly struggling under a very rare weather event, but then, most grids struggle under conditions they were not designed for.

I do suspect that there will be some regulatory changes that come from this, but let's be clear - this is a natural disaster, not really any different from a hurricane or an earthquake. Most places struggle when natural disaster strikes.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:11 pm Our grid is designed for our climate. It generally functions quite well. It is certainly struggling under a very rare weather event, but then, most grids struggle under conditions they were not designed for.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:21 pm I used to work in your state in this sector. I dealt with regulatory agencies in multiple states and I'm telling you this is a drastically oversimplified take. I saw the significant difference reliability played in regulator oversight between everywhere else and Texas. While Texas indeed had an unusual spate of weather for your climate, it exposed all the gaps in the design of the market that many of us knew existed. This happened at smaller scale under 10 years ago in ERCOT. And if they don't make significant regulatory changes this will happen again.

I do suspect that there will be some regulatory changes that come from this, but let's be clear - this is a natural disaster, not really any different from a hurricane or an earthquake. Most places struggle when natural disaster strikes.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:21 pmWhile Texas indeed had an unusual spate of weather for your climate, it exposed all the gaps in the design of the market that many of us knew existed. This happened at smaller scale under 10 years ago in ERCOT. And if they don't make significant regulatory changes this will happen again.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:23 pmThat's why the defining characteristic of being resilient stuck in my craw. If DTE told me a two day power outage was a testament to the resiliency of my energy provision I'd be furious.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:11 pm let's be clear - this is a natural disaster, not really any different from a hurricane or an earthquake. Most places struggle when natural disaster strikes.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:28 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:21 pmWhile Texas indeed had an unusual spate of weather for your climate, it exposed all the gaps in the design of the market that many of us knew existed. This happened at smaller scale under 10 years ago in ERCOT. And if they don't make significant regulatory changes this will happen again.

Yes. Anyone who pays attention knows these gaps exist.

Perhaps this event will change that. Perhaps not. People very much enjoy low energy bills, even when made aware of the risks.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:35 pm

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:11 pm let's be clear - this is a natural disaster, not really any different from a hurricane or an earthquake. Most places struggle when natural disaster strikes.

There's a movement in the emergency preparedness elements of my field to stop calling these things natural disasters because it makes it sound like humans are completely powerless and unable to address them in any way. By labeling something like Sandy as a "natural disaster" it suggests all the events that unfolded can't be helped; there was nothing that could be done. Similarly, what' happening in TX right now isn't a result of nature doing something that humans had no ability to be prepared for. And to be clear, I'm not talking about TX residents. I'm talking about elected officials. Rare? Absolutely. But when people point out vulnerabilities in infrastructure and elected officials reaffirm their commitment to ignore guidance, that's not a natural disaster.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:37 pmAre you really sure about that. They are yelling about wind turbines and solar.

There's a movement in the emergency preparedness elements of my field to stop calling these things natural disasters because it makes it sound like humans are completely powerless and unable to address them in any way.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:53 pm

There's a movement in the emergency preparedness elements of my field to stop calling these things natural disasters because it makes it sound like humans are completely powerless and unable to address them in any way.

What the new nomenclature?

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:35 pm There's a movement in the emergency preparedness elements of my field to stop calling these things natural disasters because it makes it sound like humans are completely powerless and unable to address them in any way. By labeling something like Sandy as a "natural disaster" it suggests all the events that unfolded can't be helped; there was nothing that could be done. Similarly, what' happening in TX right now isn't a result of nature doing something that humans had no ability to be prepared for. And to be clear, I'm not talking about TX residents. I'm talking about elected officials. Rare? Absolutely. But when people point out vulnerabilities in infrastructure and elected officials reaffirm their commitment to ignore guidance, that's not a natural disaster.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 10:48 am Unless I’m very wrong, the Green New Deal that Abbott and Fox are blaming this on, is not even law, correct?

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:53 pmWhat the new nomenclature?

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 7:58 pm The movement in my industries (manufacturing and IT) is called a movement toward, get this... resiliency... And it has become the buzz word since March of 2020. When absolutely everything hits the fan and in a way you didn't prepare for, how do you keep going? How do you continue to provide service/parts.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Feb 17, 2021 9:01 pm So it's just a disaster?