Octopus Overlords

interpret 'best' as you will.

note that 'only' five recorded albums and weren't touring only (marked with asterisks), and everyone not named "Ozzy" were confined to the 1980s through the mid 90s.

I love Ozzy, but he shined more on his own. During his tenure it was the music that succeeded more than his vocals.

Dio came out swinging. He gets my vote.

No love for backmasked Satan?

Wheres the I dont care I prefer them all solo option?

The only one I know of is Dave Walker, since he sang briefly for Fleetwood Mac. Good enough to get my vote.

To me, Black Sabbath began and ended with Ozzy.

Post-Ozzy Sabbath is something I never enjoyed in the least.

Dio was probably the vocalist. Ozzy was the most Sabbath. But damned Ian Gillan was under rated for Born Again, though. I didn't pay attention to any singer after that. It quickly didn't feel like the Black Sabbath I knew and stopped following their newer work.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:46 pm To me, Black Sabbath began and ended with Ozzy.

Post-Ozzy Sabbath is something I never enjoyed in the least.

Not even Heaven and Hell or Mob Rules? Wow.

It's pretty difficult to argue any singer was better than Dio. However, the Ozzy years represent the height of Sabbath's albums. Heaven and Hell is quite good too. And, Born Again as noted before is a very underrated album. But, the first 6 Sabbath albums are by far the best to my way of thinking.

Oh, that's a tricky question. Not hard, but tricky.

The best vocalist was Ronnie James Dio. See? Not hard.

But...

The best albums came out under Ozzzy.

But...

My favorite album was the less-than-popular Tyr (thus Tony Martin.) It suited my personality at the time (I was 17, pagan, and obsessed with everything fantasy or medieval.)

And...

Honorable mention goes Ian Gillan. I didn't like all of the album, or even most of it, but there were a few great songs on there (Zero the Hero is a favorite.)

Sadly, Tyr, along with a number of other albums from that period, aren't available on Spotify or other streaming services. The record company they were put out under went *poof* and the rights, last I heard, are in a NOLF-like void.

OZZY!!!
OZZY!!!
OZZY!!!

Ozzy gets my vote...but with the same caveats as others have already mentioned. Sabbath was at their best with Ozzy, so that earns him the nod. There's no doubt that Dio had the better voice, but being a more talented vocalist isn't everything. The better lead singer is the one who makes the group as a whole better.


Now maybe we should really kick up the controversy and set up the same poll for Van Halen...

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:24 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:46 pm To me, Black Sabbath began and ended with Ozzy.

Post-Ozzy Sabbath is something I never enjoyed in the least.

Not even Heaven and Hell or Mob Rules? Wow.

I'm going to risk being a blasphemer here, but I never liked Dio. I absolutely respect his immense vocal talent and hugely appreciate what he did for the metal genre, but I've never enjoyed his vocal style.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that I dislike nearly all NWOBHM. The high-pitched, operatic vocals never did anything for me at all. The only metal bands I like from that era are the ones with harsher vocals (Venom, Motorhead, etc.). It's only very recently (within the last few years) that I've begrudgingly started to tolerate genre stalwarts like Maiden and Priest.

Oddly, for some reason I can't exactly explain, Ozzy's voice somehow never bothered me.

Heh, I never liked shrill metal voices or deep unto inaudible metal voices. Rob Halford was the exception, probably because he didn't live in that shrill zone like others did. I have no use for any Iron Maiden, except maybe Eddie. I never put Dio in that group. Also, Dio Rainbow and Dio Sabbath were great for my listening tastes. After that, he didn't do it for me either, irrespective of what vocal qualities he may have had. Heaven and Hell and Mob Rules weren't Vol 4, so they were like a totally different band but they were just great albums end to end and Dio was definitely prominent in their sound.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 am Heh, I never liked shrill metal voices or deep unto inaudible metal voices.

I mainly just want to be able to understand the lyrics. If all I hear is screeching or growling instead of actual words, my enjoyment of the music drops considerably. Note that 'understand the lyrics' doesn't necessarily apply to foreign bands (The Hu, Rammstein, a huge number of Nordic bands, etc.) For them, I just want to be able to hear the words.

Once that simple requirement has been met, then I can consider whether I actually like listening to the voice. And although I do like some loud, shrill voices, I rarely want to hear more than one song in a row with them.

I voted Ozzy, as Sabbath isn't Sabbath without Ozzy.

But Hughes and Gillian sang for Deep Purple and at some point Sabbath? I did not know that.

Sidebar:

I saw Black Sabbath at the Winterland in San Francisco in probably 1975 or 76. The Sabotage Tour.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:51 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 am Heh, I never liked shrill metal voices or deep unto inaudible metal voices.

I mainly just want to be able to understand the lyrics. If all I hear is screeching or growling instead of actual words, my enjoyment of the music drops considerably. Note that 'understand the lyrics' doesn't necessarily apply to foreign bands (The Hu, Rammstein, a huge number of Nordic bands, etc.) For them, I just want to be able to hear the words.

Once that simple requirement has been met, then I can consider whether I actually like listening to the voice. And although I do like some loud, shrill voices, I rarely want to hear more than one song in a row with them.

what's funny is that, for me, 'intelligibility of lyrics' plays exactly no role whatsoever in whether or not i'm into the band. vocals are just another instrument

Scuzz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:19 pm I voted Ozzy, as Sabbath isn't Sabbath without Ozzy.

i'm of the 'Tony Iommi is Sabbath' camp myself

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:33 pm The only one I know of is Dave Walker, since he sang briefly for Fleetwood Mac. Good enough to get my vote.

oh hey, here you go

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm i'm of the 'Tony Iommi is Sabbath' camp myself

Tony and Geezer. With them you have Sabbath.

Even though that contradicts my fondness for Tyr.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm
what's funny is that, for me, 'intelligibility of lyrics' plays exactly no role whatsoever in whether or not i'm into the band. vocals are just another instrument

That applies to how I feel about 90% of rock music, and heavy metal in particular.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:56 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm i'm of the 'Tony Iommi is Sabbath' camp myself

Tony and Geezer. With them you have Sabbath.

Even though that contradicts my fondness for Tyr.

Sabbath of Theseus

I first started getting into rock music right during that gap between Ozzy and Dio. Being new to rock music I thought Black Sabbath was done with Ozzy gone, his vocals were that important to their sound. Then I heard Heaven and Hell. Holy carp that changed my mind! I'd even go so far as to call it my favorite Sabbath album. Dio's vocals not only brought the band back from the dead but elevated them higher than before. So Dio gets my vote.

gameoverman wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 6:16 pm I first started getting into rock music right during that gap between Ozzy and Dio. Being new to rock music I thought Black Sabbath was done with Ozzy gone, his vocals were that important to their sound. Then I heard Heaven and Hell. Holy carp that changed my mind! I'd even go so far as to call it my favorite Sabbath album. Dio's vocals not only brought the band back from the dead but elevated them higher than before. So Dio gets my vote.

Heh, I was still putting 2 and 2 together when "Heaven and Hell" was released and was trying to understand what the song "Iron Man" had to do with a comic book I didn't really understand, anyway, forget trying to parse "Paranoid". That was the extent of Sabbath on the radio. But the Heavy Metal movie was released and "Mob Rules" started to put the pieces together. My eldest sister had Heaven and Hell and I liked it well enough but Mob Rules after seeing/hearing Heavy Metal was a game introduction for an 11 year old. I was too young for it to change any existing game, but it set the pieces. Before that, it was all the radio stuff of Queen and Styx and Led Zeppelin and Kiss with hearkening back to the Doors. "Sign of the Southern Cross" was a constant play in my early teens and one of my earliest rejections of Radio in favor of something different.

I need to see Heavy Metal again. It was a staple in high school, but I don't think I've seen it in decades.

I doubt I understand a single Sabbath song, and they're not all that vague - they're certainly no Nightwish. I rarely understand the the metaphorical or hidden meanings of songs, and just take them at face value.


/edit - Hulu has Heavy Metal.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:51 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 am Heh, I never liked shrill metal voices or deep unto inaudible metal voices.

I mainly just want to be able to understand the lyrics. If all I hear is screeching or growling instead of actual words, my enjoyment of the music drops considerably. Note that 'understand the lyrics' doesn't necessarily apply to foreign bands (The Hu, Rammstein, a huge number of Nordic bands, etc.) For them, I just want to be able to hear the words.

Once that simple requirement has been met, then I can consider whether I actually like listening to the voice. And although I do like some loud, shrill voices, I rarely want to hear more than one song in a row with them.

what's funny is that, for me, 'intelligibility of lyrics' plays exactly no role whatsoever in whether or not i'm into the band. vocals are just another instrument

Scuzz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:19 pm I voted Ozzy, as Sabbath isn't Sabbath without Ozzy.

i'm of the 'Tony Iommi is Sabbath' camp myself

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:33 pm The only one I know of is Dave Walker, since he sang briefly for Fleetwood Mac. Good enough to get my vote.

oh hey, here you go

Heavy wah-wah and that must have been Walker on harmonica. At least I could understand the lyrics.

I have minimal experience with later Sabbath, and even later Ozzy-era Sabbath, but I was listening to Mob Rules the other night, and I love Dio's voice, but it's so different as to be a different band. The one track that leapt out at me was Country Girl. Those are sure Sabbath riffs, but I wouldn't confuse it for an early Sabbath song.

My favourite heavy metal vocalist is Rob Halford (Priest); but then, I love male rock falsetto in general from Tom Waits to Matt Bellamy (Muse). Well, excepting bad hair metal, which is most of it.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 7:05 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 4:38 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:51 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:14 am Heh, I never liked shrill metal voices or deep unto inaudible metal voices.

I mainly just want to be able to understand the lyrics. If all I hear is screeching or growling instead of actual words, my enjoyment of the music drops considerably. Note that 'understand the lyrics' doesn't necessarily apply to foreign bands (The Hu, Rammstein, a huge number of Nordic bands, etc.) For them, I just want to be able to hear the words.

Once that simple requirement has been met, then I can consider whether I actually like listening to the voice. And although I do like some loud, shrill voices, I rarely want to hear more than one song in a row with them.

what's funny is that, for me, 'intelligibility of lyrics' plays exactly no role whatsoever in whether or not i'm into the band. vocals are just another instrument

Scuzz wrote: ↑Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:19 pm I voted Ozzy, as Sabbath isn't Sabbath without Ozzy.

i'm of the 'Tony Iommi is Sabbath' camp myself

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 7:33 pm The only one I know of is Dave Walker, since he sang briefly for Fleetwood Mac. Good enough to get my vote.

oh hey, here you go

Heavy wah-wah and that must have been Walker on harmonica. At least I could understand the lyrics.

That was.....horrible.
Not Sabbath sounding at all.

Sudy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 9:44 am I have minimal experience with later Sabbath, and even later Ozzy-era Sabbath, but I was listening to Mob Rules the other night, and I love Dio's voice, but it's so different as to be a different band. The one track that leapt out at me was Country Girl. Those are sure Sabbath riffs, but I wouldn't confuse it for an early Sabbath song.

That's where I kind of end up. The Dio stuff is great and his vocals are better than Ozzy's (IMO) but it's not Sabbath like I think of Sabbath. It doesn't fit along side of War Pigs and Fairies Wear Boots and Megalomania and Snowblind and Lord of This World and....

Paranoid was 1970, Heaven and Hell 1980, I would expect to hear that difference. That's why I still thought that was a Black Sabbath album. Listen to Led Zeppelin III and In Through the Out Door, and that difference is with all the same band members. Not every band can be AC/DC.

gameoverman wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:53 pm Paranoid was 1970

it just hit me this album is over half a century old

i will say the transition from Ozzy to Dio in any Black Sabbath playlist is always jarring - there's quite a gulf between the two vocal styles.

Since this thread I've listened to entire catalogue (or at least what's available to be on Spotify), and all I can say is Mob Rules, specifically The Sign of the Southern Cross, is amazing.

It's like... Ozzies not included, man. 100% magically assembled Dios. Return for refund at your nearest heavy metal forge.


E5150 should be part of the score of a dark science fiction film from 1981.

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:50 am Since this thread I've listened to entire catalogue (or at least what's available to be on Spotify),

I'm pretty sure that's everything except the Tony Martin era due to rights conflicts.

That would be:

Eternal Idol
Headless Cross
Tyr

They were very much a product of their era, more highly produced with a fuller sound. They're not everyone's favorite, although I'd say that Tyr is probably my favorite album (as mentioned above), mostly due to the nostalgia and memories I have associated with it.

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:50 am Since this thread I've listened to entire catalogue (or at least what's available to be on Spotify), and all I can say is Mob Rules, specifically The Sign of the Southern Cross, is amazing.

It's like... Ozzies not included, man. 100% magically assembled Dios. Return for refund at your nearest heavy metal forge.


E5150 should be part of the score of a dark science fiction film from 1981.

It's my favorite album even if it's not "the best Black Sabbath" Ozzy is Sabbath, but Dio made magic with the band after Ozzy left.

So this popped up as youtube recommendation and I had to listen



About being the best vocalist, not the best Black Sabbath vocalist. I've always hated the style of singer who sings like Gillan but I've always loved Gillan. Can't say why he's different for me.

I Elizabeth.

i ventured out of Ozzy-Sabbath a while back and Dio-Sabbath has been growing on me. (and RJD is just a fantastic singer, period, end of story)

i'm now going into the later 80s albums - and other vocalists - at long last with Purple Sabbath (_Born Again_). not sure if i'm sold on Ian Gillan

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:08 pm i ventured out of Ozzy-Sabbath a while back and Dio-Sabbath has been growing on me. (and RJD is just a fantastic singer, period, end of story)

i'm now going into the later 80s albums - and other vocalists - at long last with Purple Sabbath (_Born Again_). not sure if i'm sold on Ian Gillan

Well they only have the one with him, so you're either in or out.
Me? I think Born Again is fantastic.

stimpy wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:11 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:08 pm i ventured out of Ozzy-Sabbath a while back and Dio-Sabbath has been growing on me. (and RJD is just a fantastic singer, period, end of story)

i'm now going into the later 80s albums - and other vocalists - at long last with Purple Sabbath (_Born Again_). not sure if i'm sold on Ian Gillan

Well they only have the one with him, so you're either in or out.
Me? I think Born Again is fantastic.

the instrumentals on here are great. and i will admit, good vocals on the track "Born Again". probably just need to get acclimated to the change in style.

My favorites on Born Again are Trashed and Zero The Hero

Brian wrote: ↑Tue Aug 23, 2022 3:34 pm My favorites on Born Again are Trashed and Zero The Hero

Ditto and oddly enough I find the title track to be the one that turns me off. It probably helps that both of those two songs felt more Deep Purply and less Black Sabbathy, which plays to Gillan's style of vocals.