Octopus Overlords

So, I just finished watching High Score on Netflix, and during the episode on RPGs, I was surprised to learn that one of the main influences on the creation of the original Final Fantasy (1987) was the Ultima Series by Richard Garriott. As a huge fan of Ultima (Ultima V is probably still, one of my favorite games of all time), I was intrigued.

However, in starting to look through all the Final Fantasy options, there are...quite a few.

What you recommend to someone that's never played a single game in the series? Is is possible to just jump right in somewhere and have a worthwhile experience? Or is the series so deep and self-referential that it's just not worth it to jump in unless I'm willing to start from the beginning (somehow) and solider forward?

I'd be playing on PC, if that make a a difference.

Most of the FF games are self-contained, even if they take place in the same general universe. So yes, you could start anywhere. The exception would be the games that are obviously tied together (FFX and FFX-2, for example). FWIW, I've played most of the games in the series but have jumped around all over the place and still had a good time.

Really where you begin will depend on your tolerance for how retro/old-school you want to go. The early games are very much classic JRPGs with all that entails, while later games ditch the turn-based combat and go for pseudo-real-time or actual real-time combat***.

I've really enjoyed every game from FFX on, which will sort of take you from the end of their turn-based combat engine through a series of evolutionary steps to the real-time they use today.

From the early games, FFVII is generally considered the best of the old-school games. I never played it, but I did play the FFXVII-Remake on PS4 and thought it was absolutely incredible. All of the games set such a high bar for JRPGs, I don't think you can go wrong with any of them - just watch some vids and pick the one that mechanically appeals to you the most.

*** Note: When I say real-time, I'm not talking like Dark Souls. There are still timing restrictions and a lot of automation that goes on with other party members, I just don't know what you call it. It's like "almost real-time, within a strict set of parameters."

::pulls up a chair and cracks knuckles:: OK, let's talk.

A couple things to know about Final Fantasy:

- Each main series entry (Final Fantasy 1, 2, 3, 4, etc.) is it's own self-contained game. While there are may be some nods to other games that long-time fans will notice, you can really jump in at any point. There will some consistent elements like every game having Chocobos (giant chickens that serve as mounts), a character named Cid in each game, and spells called Fira/Cura/Esuna, but you won't need to know any complex backstory to enjoy each game.
- All the games have their own unique spin on a the JRPG format. While most of the games would be considered standard turn-based JRPGs (heroes on one side, enemies on the other, and you take turns beating each other up), each one does unique things with the formula that make them very compelling...some more than others.
- There's LOTS of story in Final Fantasy games, and the story, worlds, and characters are generally the main draw of the series. If you want a game where you just focus on combat and skip all the dialog and cutscenes, this probably isn't the series for you.
- They can also be very over-the-top, in an anime sort of way. Giant swords, huge explosions, crazy monsters...it's all there. I personally love it, but you'll definitely need a tolerance for that style to enjoy the games.
- Two of them (FF 11 and 14) are MMO's. While I never played 11, I consider FF 14 to be the best MMO ever made.

As to where to start, that's a bit of a difficult question. The good news is that many of the games have recently (i.e. within the past 3-4 years) received the Remaster/Remake treatment, so it's a really good time to jump in. My top three recommendations for a complete series newbie would probably be:

- Final Fantasy X: This was the game that made the leap from 3D sprites (PS1) to a fully voice-acted, cinematic experience on PS2. The world and characters are fantastic, and the story - while often overly melodramatic - is excellent as well. It's standard turn-based combat that allows you to swap characters with different abilities in and out on the fly, which makes for some really interesting strategic decisions. The Sphere Grid system is a fun way to develop characters, although it's a bit on-rails for the first 2/3 of the game.

- Final Fantasy XII: Best way to think of this is as an offline MMO set in an incredible world. It uses a unique Gambit system that allows you set up "if/then" conditions for your characters to follow in combat, which creates a very cool dynamic of making unique adjustments for each battle, rather than micromanaging every single action. Additional conditions unlock as you play so while it starts out very simple, the complex chains of actions you can create towards the end are incredibly satisfying. The story is often compared to Star Wars, with a group of plucky heroes and rebels taking on the big evil empire. It also has my favorite character duo in all the FF games (Fran/Balthier) and a soundtrack that will blow your damn mind.

- Final Fantasy IX: This game absolutely oozes charm, while telling a powerful story with a deep combat system. It may feel a bit old-school (originally came out on PS1), but the PC release sands down some of those rough edges. It's widely considered one of the 1-2 best FF games by nearly everyone, with good reason.

A few quick thoughts on the other main games in the series:
- You can pretty safely skip FF 1-5, unless you're really into early JRPG's. I've gone back to each of these a few times, and they've never really held my interest. I can see how they were amazing at the time, but now? Meh.
- FF 6 has an amazing story, one of the best in the series. If you can stomach some old-school mechanics, this one is definitely worth a look.
- FF 7 is my favorite game of all time. Any platform, any genre, full stop. However, that's mostly because it was the first real RPG I ever played, and I have a ton of nostalgia for it. I think it's still a very good game, but will likely feel horribly dated to someone without that same nostalgia lens. Still, it's got some of the most powerful, emotional moments in gaming history, with a villain and soundtrack that are second to none. (The recent FF 7 Remake is an absolute blast, but I have no idea if/how it would resonate for those without experience with the original)
- FF 8 is mostly meh. Mopey characters, ok story, and lackluster combat system. It does have the best soundtrack the series though, imo.
- FF 13 is maybe the most polarizing game in the series. It's completely on rails for 2/3 of the game, with some dubbing it a "hallway simulator". The combat system is very cool though, and I quite enjoyed the story (although it gets lots of criticism as well).
- FF 14 is the best MMO out there, period.
- FF 15 is sort of "Grand Theft Final Fantasy". A huge open world with tons of things to do. It's a significant departure from the generally linear nature of the previous games, which (as I'm sure you can imagine) was met with some...resistance from long time fans. Still, it looks incredible, has a very cool story about friendship and sacrifice, and is overall very fun to play. It's just very different from the rest of the series.

There are also a bunch of spin-off games in the FF universe. I find most of these to be generally fun but mostly skippable, with one notable exception: Final Fantasy Tactics: War of the Lions. This is a top 5 game for me, and is one of the best tactical strategy games every made. I would consider it a must-play.

I went through recently and added up my total time with the FF series, and it was...a lot (around 3,400 hours, give or take). So I'd be happy to answer any questions or provide any additional input.

Awesome. I appreciate the feedback from both y'all.

I wasn't sure if the MMO (14) was worth considering just to try and get a "feel" for the universe, but I'm not a fan of paying subscription fees. For many of the other titles, it's a bit hard for me to discern true concerns vs reviewers being reviewers. I first settled on 13, but more than a few of the commenters suggested it was a janky port with issues and I'd need to download 3rd party mods and updates. So then I was looking at 10 and 12 and just kinda settled on 12 for no particular reason. I was looking at 15 and couldn't figure out why it was so much cheaper (as the newest?) than the older titles. But if its different and not as loved, maybe that's their way of enticing people.

I looked at the single-digit FF titles, but I had to be honest with myself and admit that having no nostalgia would likely be a barrier based on the look.

I have a bunch to think about, it would seem.

So in summary, play the Tales games.

:runs away quickly before Skiny can murder him:

I think I've come to hate JRPGs in general. Nonsensical stories and endless grinds aren't so much my thing anymore. I've played a bunch of the FF games (except for the ff7 remake, which is on the list) and they pretty much all go on too long. They are fun for a good while, but the fun never lasts as long as the game lasts. I think they would be well served to tighten things up. I wonder if it is just a difference between the US and Japanese markets because grinding is huge in most JRPGs.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 3:50 pm Awesome. I appreciate the feedback from both y'all.

I wasn't sure if the MMO (14) was worth considering just to try and get a "feel" for the universe, but I'm not a fan of paying subscription fees.

FWIW, FF 14 has a really generous free trial. I believe you can play up to level 60 for free, which takes you through most of the base game. You could probably spend 100+ hours before ever having to pay a penny.

For many of the other titles, it's a bit hard for me to discern true concerns vs reviewers being reviewers. I first settled on 13, but more than a few of the commenters suggested it was a janky port with issues and I'd need to download 3rd party mods and updates. So then I was looking at 10 and 12 and just kinda settled on 12 for no particular reason. I was looking at 15 and couldn't figure out why it was so much cheaper (as the newest?) than the older titles. But if its different and not as loved, maybe that's their way of enticing people.

Yeah, I should have added the caveat that the only two FF games I've played on PC are 14 and 15. Squeenix does have a reputation for janky PC ports, and I really have no idea where the PC versions stand today.

coopasonic wrote:So in summary, play the Tales games.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed May 05, 2021 4:01 pm

coopasonic wrote:So in summary, play the Tales games.

To be completely fair if you gave me the choice of replaying Tales of Berseria or FFXV I would... laugh at you and walk away. I just checked Steam and I spent exactly 40 hours on each of them which is funny because I swear both were MUCH longer!

Yeah, I was going to say... paging Skinypupy!

I don't think I've played deeply into a FF since FFX, which was around when I largely gave up on consoles. I don't know if FFXIV (the most recent MMO) is a good example of most of the series's style of gameplay, but it's definitely a great example of its feel and the common threads shared by its games' often very different worlds.

Another hearty recommendation for Final Fantasy Tactics, even though it too is a divergence. But the tactics gameplay is interesting and addictive, and the story is captivating. I'm thinking the best way to play this is probably to emulate the PSP? It's available on Android and iOS (a port of the PSP version), but I've heard mixed things about the interface. It's in the same subgenre as the Disgaeas, though a little older. And if you're an X-COM/general turn-based tactics fan you'd be right at home.

Otherwise, for me, it was all about FF7, 8, and 9. I didn't finish any of them, but got the closest to 7. They appealed to me as an older teen, though I think it would be hard to go back and play them now. (I did spend a little time with the 16-bit ones, but not nearly as much. I question how much fun something like FF2 would be to play these days, without the benefit of nostalgia. If you wanted something in that vein by Square that's still "fun", I'd recommend Super Mario RPG, a much better experience than Paper Mario IMO.) The FF7 remake seems to be a success, but there's no way to play that on PC currently. I've thought about going back and playing some of the later ones now that they're on PC, especially 12 and the most recent single-player one, 15. But the reality is that I'm just not interested in more traditional eastern RPGs and their conventions anymore.


Jokes aside, around that same period I did adore Tales of Destiny. Unfortunately, Tales of Symphonia bored me when I finally got around to trying it a few years ago. Heard very good things about Tales of Berseria... played it for a few hours a couple years ago, would like to give it another try. I'm just kind of put off by the anime-ness of post-16/early 32-bit JRPGs.

FF7 Remake on the PS4 is hands down the best game in the series for me. FF12 (An HD remaster is available on both the PS4 and Xbox) is second and if you're talking pre PS2 era then FF6, 7, and 9 are all worth while. 8 was easily the worst of the bunch in the mainline series for me and I skipped all the MMOs entirely. I didn't mind FF13 and 15, but a lot of people didn't like those entries.

I think FF8 really milked the melodrama/teen angst stuff first expressed in smaller amounts in in FF7. FF9 was the course correction. That said, FF8 was one of the first titles I ever pre-ordered, and while it didn't live up to expectations, it really had some fantastic design elements. The Triple Triad minigame was addicting. But its iteration of the battle system was especially tedious. I certainly wouldn't pick it as an entry point, no.

I agree with most of what's been said. I'd recommend you start with 9. If we know what you like and don't like about 9, it's easier to recommend other games in the series. It's a bit more welcoming that some entries. It's a more classic fantasy setting. It's got a likable and memorable cast.

If you want to experience it all, just start with 6 and go straight through with Tactics after 7 skipping 11 (and maybe 14 depending on you MMO tolerance).

If you just want some highlights, start with 9 then play 12, 15 and 7 Remake.

If you're only looking to play one, I'd say grab 12 Zodiac Age. It's a great mix of old and new. The cast and story are fun and sweeping. It feels very Final Fantasy while exploring new mechanics. You could choose 7 remake here. It's a great game, but if it sucks you in, it'll be harder going backwards from there just due to age and mechanics.

I didn't realize it was such a beloved series around these parts.

Again, all the input is appreciated.

Sudy wrote: ↑Thu May 06, 2021 8:41 am I think FF8 really milked the melodrama/teen angst stuff first expressed in smaller amounts in in FF7. FF9 was the course correction. That said, FF8 was one of the first titles I ever pre-ordered, and while it didn't live up to expectations, it really had some fantastic design elements. The Triple Triad minigame was addicting. But its iteration of the battle system was especially tedious. I certainly wouldn't pick it as an entry point, no.

The Remaster version of FF8 streamlines much of the tedious Draw mechanic, as well as adding a speed boost. It did a lot to offset some of the tedium of constantly drawing spells from mobs. It's a shame the Draw aspect was so dull, because the Junction system was actually really cool.

I've finished all the main entries from 6 to 15...except 8. Tried it 4 times now, and never get past the 30 hour mark. It does have my favorite FF song though, "Liberi Fatali".



Side note: If you ever get the chance to see a Distant Worlds show (symphony playing FF music), I would highly recommend it. I've been to two, and they're incredible. Even Mrs Skinypupy, who has never played a FF game, thought it was fantastic.

My favorite two were III/VI (the one that everyone played on the super nintendo) and VII. Played them both as a teenager and thought they were about two steps short of the pinnacle of storytelling (the pinnacle being Chrono Trigger, obviously. fight_me.jpg). I don't know whether, as an adult pushing 40, I could deal with all the emo teenage whining or the grindy JRPG mechanics now (and I hate to say it, but I don't know if I could play through Chrono Trigger again, either).

i only ever played the ollllld ones (i basically only remember Final Fantasy I on FamicomNES) but i do own all the Tactics titles on various platforms (GBA, PS1, DS, PSP).

I would add that a lot of the games that we've been talking about are available on Xbox Game Pass if you have that. They just took 9 off, but I think 7, 8 12 and 15 are on there. And 10 and 10-2 are coming next week.

I've played a decent number of the earlier FF games. If you like old school fairly on-rails JRPGs with turn-based battles, they'll certainly fit the bill. Like Coop, I can't really get into those as much as a I used to; random combat encounters + often long battles just bore me now. I much prefer the combat in more modern, actiony FF games. I don't know when it will be out on the PC, but the FF 7 remake was pretty good in that regard, although it is still a pretty on-the-rails game.

I tend to judge the FF games by how close I got to finishing them. In fact, I'm playing a PC port (of a DS remake?) of FF3 right now. Technically it's fine, but boring compared to the others (and the story is all over the place).

The Very Good:
FF9 - Finished it and really enjoyed it. Cartoony style, and was a welcome change to FF8.
FF7 (Original) - Great game, but I never quite got to the finish. But there's a reason why this one got so much love, & there was such demand for a remake.
FF10 - I played a good deal of this, but eventually wandered away. Not the game's fault though.
FF 6 - This is the one that was the US release as FF3 on the SNES, right? That one was very good. I'll replay this one sometime and try to finish.

The Very Good but Different
FF 14 - a fantastic MMO. If I wasn't busy with other games, I'd be playing this, but the subscription thing keeps me away.
FF 11 - The other MMO was a little rougher, but was still fun.
FF Tactics - I get confused over the versions released on the various platforms, remakes, renamed, etc. But as a strategy/troops type game, this was excellent. I think I may have beat the same game twice (two different versions) over the years.

The Old-School
FF 1 through 5 - A history lesson in JRPGs. I think I picked 3 for a replay as I hadn't played it before, I knew 1 & 2 were very basic, and it was on sale.

The... Others
FF 8 - I remember hating this one, compared to how much I enjoyed FF7
FF 12 - Bought it. Remember nothing about it. Was this Age of Zodiac? The Lightning stuff? Don't know, don't care.
FF 13 - Bought it. Remember nothing about it. Was this Age of Zodiac? The Lightning stuff? Don't know, don't care.
FF 15 - I bounced hard off of this one. Didn't revile it like many, but never got into enough to make a quality judgement on it.

I'm about 1/2 through FF3 and generally unimpressed, but my expectations weren't high. I'll probably hit up 6 or 7 whenever I drift to the next FF game down the line.

Baroquen wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 11:25 am FF Tactics - I get confused over the versions released on the various platforms, remakes, renamed, etc. But as a strategy/troops type game, this was excellent. I think I may have beat the same game twice (two different versions) over the years.

For anyone interested, this article breaks it down pretty cleanly. There's really only the original (PS1) and the The War of the Lions (PSP) versions. There are mobile ports for the latter, but they're probably unideal unless you're uncomfortable with emulation. (I have it on good authority that emulating the PSP version is pretty darned simple.) Unless one does want to play it on their phone specifically, in which case I suspect the mobile versions are unideal for interface reasons, but fine.

Since I was so familiar with the original, I did find a few of the improved PSP version's translation revisions to be confusing, but for anyone coming to the game for the first time, the re-release is surely preferable. In the original version, the dense plot was often made more confusing by the at-times questionable translation.

As I haven't fully played the game as an adult, I can't vouch for how penetrable the story is in the updated version. But overall it's definitely darker than most of the mainstream titles in the series. It's 98% political intrigue and 2% chocobos. If you want more Game of Thrones than boy band with anime haircuts (and of course, love tactics strategy), this is a game for you.

Sudy wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 11:57 am

Baroquen wrote: ↑Sat May 08, 2021 11:25 am FF Tactics - I get confused over the versions released on the various platforms, remakes, renamed, etc. But as a strategy/troops type game, this was excellent. I think I may have beat the same game twice (two different versions) over the years.

For anyone interested, this article breaks it down pretty cleanly. There's really only the original (PS1) and the The War of the Lions (PSP) versions. There are mobile ports for the latter, but they're probably unideal unless you're uncomfortable with emulation. (I have it on good authority that emulating the PSP version is pretty darned simple.) Unless one does want to play it on their phone specifically, in which case I suspect the mobile versions are unideal for interface reasons, but fine.

Since I was so familiar with the original, I did find a few of the improved PSP version's translation revisions to be confusing, but for anyone coming to the game for the first time, the re-release is surely preferable. In the original version, the dense plot was often made more confusing by the at-times questionable translation.

As I haven't fully played the game as an adult, I can't vouch for how penetrable the story is in the updated version. But overall it's definitely darker than most of the mainstream titles in the series. It's 98% political intrigue and 2% chocobos. If you want more Game of Thrones than boy band with anime haircuts (and of course, love tactics strategy), this is a game for you.

The War of the Lions version (available on multiple platforms), is by far the superior version of the game. The story is much better due to the excellent re-translation, and is one of the better video game stories ever told, imo.

There are also two games that came out for the DS, FF Tactics Advance and FF Tactics Advance 2. They were both excellent games that I would strongly recommend if you still have a DS lying around. They leaned heavily into the strategic gameplay over the story though. The story in both Tactics Advance games was completely throw-away.

There's also a mobile gacha game that came out last year which has FF Tactics branding on it. It's a tragic, disappointing mess, essentially just another existing game that they threw a FF coat of paint over. Avoid it at all costs unless you really enjoy F2P gacha nonsense.

Baroquen wrote:FF 12 - Bought it. Remember nothing about it. Was this Age of Zodiac? The Lightning stuff? Don't know, don't care.
FF 13 - Bought it. Remember nothing about it. Was this Age of Zodiac? The Lightning stuff? Don't know, don't care.

They obviously didn't connect with you (which is fine), but I think it's funny that those are lumped together like that. FF 12 and 13 couldn't possibly be more different. If they didn't have the FF name, you'd think they weren't even from the same series, they're that much polar opposites. 12 is the Zodiac game (the original Japanese version and the remaster both had the "Zodiac Age" subtitle), and 13 is the "Lightning" game (she's the main character).

I'd recommend 12 to anyone, as it's a pretty fantastic game (imo). I'd only recommend 13 to series vets or those who are fully on board with modern JRPGs. I think it's a decent game, but unless you're pretty invested in FF to begin with, it probably wouldn't connect.

I forgot there was even a sequel to Tactics Advance. I can't remember if I played it. I didn't get very far in the original. The mechanics are all FFT, but the story is much less interesting and much lighter. The gameplay in FFT was great, but the story is really what completed the experience.

Thanks for the recap. FFX looks like the sweet spot for me with tolerable graphics and old school combat.

And it has blitzball! Which I played for hours and wished there was a dedicated game for, even though it lacked depth.

FFX frustrated the hell out of me because I wanted it to be something it wasn't. (I was much more interested in the more sci-fi setting that was abandoned early on. And yes, I've since gone back and read the spoilers.) But I can't deny it oozed atmosphere. If my time was infinite, I'd enjoy giving it another try.

Everything is in Japanese, how do I navigate the menus?

Lol... did a joke just fly over my head, or did you download the wrong ROM?

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:10 am Lol... did a joke just fly over my head, or did you download the wrong ROM?

HA HA, I found the fix.

What threw me for a loop was the settings menu was in Japanese. Then I watched a video and figured out which box to click.

Don't confuse it with the Al Bhed language that you're not supposed to understand initially.

Sudy wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 1:35 am Don't confuse it with the Al Bhed language that you're not supposed to understand initially.

E hajan tet vimmo ihmulg dryd myhkiyka

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:28 pm Thanks for the recap. FFX looks like the sweet spot for me with tolerable graphics and old school combat.

I enjoyed FFX, but FF12 is a far superior PS2 era FF game and with the upgraded HD version it's not terrible to look at either.

Scraper wrote: ↑Tue May 11, 2021 9:03 am

Jaymann wrote: ↑Mon May 10, 2021 9:28 pm Thanks for the recap. FFX looks like the sweet spot for me with tolerable graphics and old school combat.

I enjoyed FFX, but FF12 is a far superior PS2 era FF game and with the upgraded HD version it's not terrible to look at either.

Thanks for the recommendation. I did get the upgraded HD of X. Since I probably won't be going any further back than X, I can look forward to 12.

I'm hooked on FFX, except I can't find anyway to avoid the lengthy credits every time I start it up or reload. And you can't just go AFK while it runs or it starts over.

What platform?l are you on?

Hitting Start on PS4 or + on Switch always skipped it.

I believe he's on the "we can't talk about that here" platform.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 6:52 pm What platform?l are you on?

It's personal.

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 2:07 am

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed May 12, 2021 6:52 pm What platform?l are you on?

It's personal.

That's kind of the price you pay by not paying a price to begin with.

It was a personal choice. And the secret square is...

B

Jaymann wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 10:58 am It was a personal choice. And the secret square is...

B

or is it

R

or maybe even

RRRRrrrrrrrrr

Piracy? Arguable. The game is on Steam now, as an HD remaster with the sequel to boot. But being 20 years old (somehow) and/or if someone wanted to experience the original version, I'd have a hard time feeling judgmental. Some of the other games' ports also had issues (initially at least), or were priced... ambitiously.

But I'm also fine with imagining Jaymann with a parrot on his shoulder from now on.

Sudy wrote: ↑Thu May 13, 2021 5:55 pm Piracy? Arguable. The game is on Steam now, as an HD remaster with the sequel to boot. But being 20 years old (somehow) and/or if someone wanted to experience the original version, I'd have a hard time feeling judgmental. Some of the other games' ports also had issues (initially at least), or were priced... ambitiously.

But I'm also fine with imagining Jaymann with a parrot on his shoulder from now on.

Actually that wouldn't be that big of a stretch, because:

But I had to get special thick animal handling gloves to protect me from bites.

Whoa. Are you in Hatebeak?