Octopus Overlords

The new Dark Alliance game comes out in a couple weeks (June 22). While they certainly weren't groundbreaking in any way, I thoroughly enjoyed the original Dark Alliance games waaaaaaaaay back on the PS2 (and again more recently with the re-release). They were mostly mindless, but more fun than they had any right to be.

This new iteration seems to have ditched the Diablo-style ARPG in favor of a more third-person, action oriented approach (a la God of War). After watching some gameplay vids, I've come away with a two main thoughts:

1. I fully expect that this will receive mediocre reviews (at best). It's not the greatest looking game, shifting away from the style of the originals is likely to put folks off, and there doesn't appear to be any big new improvements or advancements to the standard action game formula here. However...

2. Drizzt is one of my favorite characters, and I'm an absolute sucker for any D&D video game. Unless it's a complete trainwreck (which is still possible), I expect I'll probably enjoy it more than most.

Anyways, here's a good summary trailer, with bonus Jermaine Clement narration.

Great, funny trailer! I have always said the best thing about D&D is the universe and the worst thing is the stupid rules. So, an action game sounds fun to me. Will be looking forward to reviews.

Yeah I really liked the original too - aren't they releasing a remaster of that as well?

I haven't decided what platform to get it on. I have more potential friends on Steam but this seems like it would be a great fit for PS5. Anyone else?

rittchard wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:27 pm Yeah I really liked the original too - aren't they releasing a remaster of that as well?

I haven't decided what platform to get it on. I have more potential friends on Steam but this seems like it would be a great fit for PS5. Anyone else?

eh, looks like the game doesn't support cross-platform play. Too bad, as otherwise would be fun to get on the XBox to play with friends.

This looks like the sort of thing I'd pick up as I'm also in the "sucker for any DnD game" crowd. I'll be on PS5 for lounging on the couch gameplay. PSN name: hamlet3145

rittchard wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:27 pm Yeah I really liked the original too - aren't they releasing a remaster of that as well?

A remaster of the first game was released a few weeks ago. I played through it and nothing has been changed other than higher-res graphics. It's definitely a relic of its time (with all the jank and clunkiness that entails), and would be really hard to recommend to anyone who didn't have nostalgia for the original. If you do have fond memories though, it's lots of fun.

Rumors are that they're going to release the second game as well, but that hasn't been officially announced.

Not sure if I should get this on PS5 or PC. Seems made for console, but I spend way more time gaming on my PC. Guess i can play on PC with controller, but I has a psychological block doing that.

Jag wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:18 pm Not sure if I should get this on PS5 or PC. Seems made for console, but I spend way more time gaming on my PC. Guess i can play on PC with controller, but I has a psychological block doing that.

Keep in mind, if it makes things any easier, you can use your PS5 controller on your PC (with better DualSense support if you use DS4Windows):

Hamlet3145 wrote: ↑Thu Jun 10, 2021 12:43 pm This looks like the sort of thing I'd pick up as I'm also in the "sucker for any DnD game" crowd. I'll be on PS5 for lounging on the couch gameplay. PSN name: hamlet3145

OK PS5 it is!!! It's Hammy-time!!!

I didn't watch the video at first, but then I saw Jermaine Clement narrating and had to watch. I had no idea the characters and story were from the Icewind Dale trilogy. I loved that series as a kid. Definitely a must buy for me now.

Jag wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:33 pm I didn't watch the video at first, but then I saw Jermaine Clement narrating and had to watch. I had no idea the characters and story were from the Icewind Dale trilogy. I loved that series as a kid. Definitely a must buy for me now.

Yeah, I think they've done a really poor job marketing this game. Even just a different title (stick either Icewind Dale or Drizzt in the name) would probably generate lots more interest with the D&D crowd.

It looks like a very generic fantasy game, and you have to actively dig into it a bit to see what game is really about.

shouldn't the ban on the word 'dark' in any video game title have gone into effect over two decades ago?

Kind of sad they won't have couch Coop at launch.

A quick hands-on preview. Technical issues aside (which hopefully don't derail it), this looks like fun.

It also mentions that couch co-op is coming, but it sounds like it won't quite be ready at launch.



Also, it looks like this will be on Gamepass on Day One. Probably should have checked that before I pre-ordered...oh well.

Yeah, reviews are about what I expected...mediocre to bad. Sounds like the PC version is a buggy mess, with the console versions faring a bit better (but still with some issues). I've got it pre-loaded (on PS4), but it doesn't unlock until late tonight so I probably won't get to it tomorrow. Will report back. There's also supposed to be a big day one patch...not sure if/how much it will help with the tech issues.

It's still amazing to me how bad D&D is in the video game space. I commented about this in the Video Game Randomness thread, but the last new, AAA D&D video game that we got was NWN2...all the way back in 2006. For a company with such a strong global IP, compelling world, rich lore, and dedicated playerbase, it's baffling to me how they can be such an complete and utter failure in video games for the better part of two fucking decades.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jun 21, 2021 3:31 pm Yeah, reviews are about what I expected...mediocre to bad. Sounds like the PC version is a buggy mess, with the console versions faring a bit better (but still with some issues). I've got it pre-loaded (on PS4), but it doesn't unlock until late tonight so I probably won't get to it tomorrow. Will report back. There's also supposed to be a big day one patch...not sure if/how much it will help with the tech issues.

It's still amazing to me how bad D&D is in the video game space. I commented about this in the Video Game Randomness thread, but the last new, AAA D&D video game that we got was NWN2...all the way back in 2006. For a company with such a strong global IP, compelling world, rich lore, and dedicated playerbase, it's baffling to me how they can be such an complete and utter failure in video games for the better part of two fucking decades.

Solasta does a nice job with the D&D license, although it's in a new world. It's also not an AAA game, but it is the best one out there right now.

Jag wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:10 am Solasta does a nice job with the D&D license, although it's in a new world. It's also not an AAA game, but it is the best one out there right now.

The combat in Solasta is fantastic. Easily the best implementation of the D&D ruleset I've ever seen in video game form.

Which makes it such a damn shame that the rest of the game outside of the stellar combat (story, characters, dialog, voice work, etc.) was pretty much hot garbage.

Yeah . . . based on some reviews I've seen I think this has moved into "I hope it shows up on PS+ eventually" territory for me.

A D&D hack n slash sound great on paper. Really wish someone could pull it off.

I think part of the problem is that the kind of title that D&D thrives at takes a lot of work. The Divinity/Pillars of Eternity/Solasta/Baldur's Gate games are intricate, involved, and hard to balance. Most of the rest of the stuff that's come out has taken a fast, easy to produce style of game and tried to lean on the license the way movie tie-ins are famous for doing. And they end up feeling like those shovelware movie games.

As written, D&D is a turn based system. Even the good D&D games that are real time (like Baldur's Gate/NWN) were actually turn based games set to 'automatic' under the hood. D&D is also based on the dice doing the work. You'd have to tweak it to something that is 'inspired by' D&D to give the player direct control over things like swinging a sword. But then again, the same is true of Fallout, which was originally built around a tabletop system and a was able to transition that system to a direct control variant. There is room for other genres. I could see a good first person open world game (Skyrim-like) built around most of the D&D rules and set in their worlds, or a hybrid like Dragon Age. After all, a big part of the D&D license(s) is the setting. It's the Sword Coast, and Icewind Dale, it's beholders and illithids. It's Elminster and Drizzt. (And similar lists for other settings.) A good game that used the settings could fudge on the rules the way Bethesda did with Fallout.

Hamlet3145 wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:36 am Yeah . . . based on some reviews I've seen I think this has moved into "I hope it shows up on PS+ eventually" territory for me.

A D&D hack n slash sound great on paper. Really wish someone could pull it off.

This does seems exactly like the type of game that will be on PS+ in a few months.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:26 am

Jag wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:10 am Solasta does a nice job with the D&D license, although it's in a new world. It's also not an AAA game, but it is the best one out there right now.

The combat in Solasta is fantastic. Easily the best implementation of the D&D ruleset I've ever seen since Temple of Elemental Evil in video game form.

FTFY

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 1:00 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:26 am

Jag wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:10 am Solasta does a nice job with the D&D license, although it's in a new world. It's also not an AAA game, but it is the best one out there right now.

The combat in Solasta is fantastic. Easily the best implementation of the D&D ruleset I've ever seen since Temple of Elemental Evil in video game form.

FTFY

Heh. I still have nightmares of trying to get ToEE to actually run on my old systems. The jank was oh so real.

It came out about the same time as Pool of Radiance, which was fun because that one initially had a bug that could result in the game literally erasing your hard drive.

But ToEE was just a fantastic combat game once you got going. It really should have resulted in a new franchise based on that engine, but for some reason it just never took off.

Game lasted 2 minutes on my computer.
The inability to remap movement keys is a non-starter for me, off it goes.

Spent a couple hours playing the first two missions tonight on PS4. The bad news is that this game has some pretty major problems. The good news is that it is actually kinda fun...when you're not being plagued by the problems.

Let's start with the good:
- Playing as Drizzt, the combat feels fluid and satisfying. I'm zipping through goblins and trolls, slicing and dicing exactly like I imagine Drizzt would.
- It all looks fantastic. They did a great job capturing the theme here. Drizzt's combat animations look good, as do most of the enemies.
- The system of collecting gear but not actually being able to access it until you get back to camp is kinda cool.
- Playing on the lower two difficulty levels, the first two missions were tough, but fair.

Now for the bad:
- There's a general level of jank to everything. Pressing the start button has a 1-2 second pause before the menu pops up. You have to actively be looking at the mob you want to lock onto, clicking R3 to lock won't automatically lock the closest mob. You have to sit through the game slowly tallying up all the damage, gear, and crystals at the end of each level with no way to make it go faster. Hitting L2 to go into ranged targeting sometimes simply doesn't activate in the middle of combat. Getting hit by an enemy AOE knocks you down for what feels like an absurdly long time, and mobs can chain these AOE's to kill you without you being able to do anything to stop it. I killed the first mid-boss by knocking him into a patch of ice spikes...which he then proceeded to stand in and taunt me from while his HP dropped to zero. I could go on, but you get the idea. There's just a general lack of polish to the entire thing and it all feels half-baked.
- Framerate is all over the place. One minute it will be perfectly fine, the next minute it becomes a slideshow. There doesn't seem to be any consistency on what triggers it either. I've had it run perfectly smooth with 8 mobs on screen then drop after they're all dead, and vice versa. It's particularly problematic when it happens in the middle of combat though.
- Feels like character movement speed should be about 25% faster. Drizzt moves fine when dodging in the middle of a fight, but he feels slow and clunky out of combat. The ledge animations are about the worst I've seen as well. You jump in the direction of the ledge, and he apparently suction cups his hands to the rocks to climb up. It's hilarious.
- It is very difficult to effectively judge incoming attacks, even with the arrows indicating where they're coming from. The camera doesn't help here, as it often swings wildly into a completely useless position. I would strongly recommend turning off screen shake and maxing out the ranged targeting speed in the options.

I haven't tried any MP yet, but Little B is very eager to do couch co-op once it gets released in a couple weeks. Having played the board game and read the books, she was really excited to see the Companions in action.

I absolutely would not recommend it right now, but I do think it's a game that might be salvageable with some patches and some TLC. It certainly feels like a wasted opportunity to make a big splash with a D&D game, but it's not quite as bad as I was expecting. We'll see how things progress as I get further into it, and when I try MP and co-op.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:11 pm It came out about the same time as Pool of Radiance, which was fun because that one initially had a bug that could result in the game literally erasing your hard drive.

But ToEE was just a fantastic combat game once you got going. It really should have resulted in a new franchise based on that engine, but for some reason it just never took off.

I am pretty sure that reason was the bug you mentioned. That was a pretty big deterrent and, back then, it was harder to distribute patches and such easily.

I remember that bug. Man, I was so worried it was going to get me that I erased the game and returned it.

I am bummed that Dark Alliance is getting bad reviews. The original has loads of memories for me. I just had a friend pass away and we used to spend hours playing Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance as a group of four on the Game Cube, in-between rounds of Goldeneye. I was hoping this one would recapture some of the magic of the other ones.

baelthazar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:56 am

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:11 pm It came out about the same time as Pool of Radiance, which was fun because that one initially had a bug that could result in the game literally erasing your hard drive.

But ToEE was just a fantastic combat game once you got going. It really should have resulted in a new franchise based on that engine, but for some reason it just never took off.

I am pretty sure that reason was the bug you mentioned. That was a pretty big deterrent and, back then, it was harder to distribute patches and such easily.

I remember that bug. Man, I was so worried it was going to get me that I erased the game and returned it.

That was Pool of Radiance, not Temple of Elemental Evil (which was the one I loved for the combat). I don't think Temple of Elemental Evil had any computer damaging bugs, but it was just generally buggy on release. I believe there are some fan made patches that fixed/enhanced the game though.

I agree with the jank. I'm playing with an Xbox controller and something about the combat feels off to me. There's just a certain lack of polish to it.

I'll still press forward because I'm a huge fan of the setting and characters, but hopefully there are some patches incoming.

Penny-Arcade has you covered, YK.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:32 am I'll still press forward because I'm a huge fan of the setting and characters, but hopefully there are some patches incoming.

Feels like the sort of game I'll play now until the jank gets too frustrating, then I'll revisit sometime next year and hope they've improved it.

I'm not gonna hold my breath though.

I heard there was couch co op planned which peaked my interest. But since it's a future feature I'm more than happy to wait.

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:28 am That was Pool of Radiance, not Temple of Elemental Evil (which was the one I loved for the combat). I don't think Temple of Elemental Evil had any computer damaging bugs, but it was just generally buggy on release. I believe there are some fan made patches that fixed/enhanced the game though.

Ah, you might be right. That said ToEE had a game stopping bug that would basically destroy all of your progress. It would corrupt your save games. I am not sure they ever fixed that bug.

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:11 pm It came out about the same time as Pool of Radiance, which was fun because that one initially had a bug that could result in the game literally erasing your hard drive.

Myth II had a similar bug. If you changed the install directory, when you uninstalled, it would just delete everything. But since the default folder didn't exist, it would delete from the root.

I forgot to mention that it also seems to really be taxing my older PS4. Damn thing sounds like a jet engine when I enter a new zone.

EDIT: OK, one more quick update. This game is absolutely NOT designed to be played single player. At all.

I went back and retried a zone I had previously cleared, choosing one higher difficulty level. The game said I was well over the "power" score required, but I got absolutely thrashed by just the opening mobs. Problem is, with no other party members to take aggro, you simply get swarmed by every mob in sight. That's not a big issue at lower difficulty when every mob goes down in a couple hits, but if the difficulty is bumped up even a little bit, you get mowed under and taken down in about 30 seconds. Higher difficulty also causes you to burn through stamina at a significantly higher rate. 2-3 dodges and a couple heavy attacks, and my stamina meter was simply gone and I had no way to counter the dozen goblins swinging for my head. It's not even remotely fun. I'm sure there's a "git gud" factor at play here, but I'm not sure the game is fun enough to really warrant the effort.

Since you don't gain any loot or XP at all unless you complete the entire level, the only way to become more powerful is to grind through multiple runs at the lowest difficulty (for reference, at the higher difficulty notch, I was getting slaughtered 10 minutes into a level that takes around 45 minutes to complete). Even then, the increases you get from leveling are miniscule. For example, putting an attribute point into DEX when leveling up gives you an .5% increased chance to crit with a 1% increase in crit damage. Putting a point into CON gives you a measly 1% increase to HP.

Seems like this could be fixed by the ability to include bots in the party so all the mobs weren't focused on me, but that's not an option. You either play by yourself, or MP with a full party. For a primarily solo player like me, it's basically impossible (or a ridiculous grind) to progress even the slightest amount. Could also be fixed by significantly increasing the leveling rewards, I suppose.

I might play through a few more levels solo on the lowest difficulty just to see what they're like, but I really have little interest in playing with random PUGS just to progress.

This game is just so damn disappointing.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:36 am I forgot to mention that it also seems to really be taxing my older PS4. Damn thing sounds like a jet engine when I enter a new zone.

EDIT: OK, one more quick update. This game is absolutely NOT designed to be played single player. At all.

I went back and retried a zone I had previously cleared, choosing one higher difficulty level. The game said I was well over the "power" score required, but I got absolutely thrashed by just the opening mobs. Problem is, with no other party members to take aggro, you simply get swarmed by every mob in sight. That's not a big issue at lower difficulty when every mob goes down in a couple hits, but if the difficulty is bumped up even a little bit, you get mowed under and taken down in about 30 seconds. Higher difficulty also causes you to burn through stamina at a significantly higher rate. 2-3 dodges and a couple heavy attacks, and my stamina meter was simply gone and I had no way to counter the dozen goblins swinging for my head. It's not even remotely fun. I'm sure there's a "git gud" factor at play here, but I'm not sure the game is fun enough to really warrant the effort.

Since you don't gain any loot or XP at all unless you complete the entire level, the only way to become more powerful is to grind through multiple runs at the lowest difficulty (for reference, at the higher difficulty notch, I was getting slaughtered 10 minutes into a level that takes around 45 minutes to complete).

This sounds SO MUCH like Warhammer 40K - Inquisitor, with many of the same issues. It made my PS4 Pro constantly crank the fan like a jet. It was also terrible at giving you an actual estimation of what power you needed to win a level. This isn't made by the same team, is it?

baelthazar wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:56 pm This sounds SO MUCH like Warhammer 40K - Inquisitor, with many of the same issues. It made my PS4 Pro constantly crank the fan like a jet. It was also terrible at giving you an actual estimation of what power you needed to win a level. This isn't made by the same team, is it?

Nope. It's from Tuque games. This and some sort of MP shooter called Livelock are the only games on their resume.

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Mon Jun 14, 2021 4:40 pm shouldn't the ban on the word 'dark' in any video game title have gone into effect over two decades ago?

Not a Dark Souls fan are you?