Redfall

[Scraper]

If Microsoft manages to turn Bethesda into a garbage developer I am going to be pissed. Fingers crossed for Starfield.

[Grifman]

Oof…


As the Skill Up review concludes, this likely does not bode well for Starfield.

Sorry, but that does not logically follow. Two different studios doing two different things. Arkane made a looter shooter, not something they had never done before, it was totally unlike anything they had done before. Starfield is a tried and true Bethesda RPG, something they have done over and over.

Now Starfield may yet be a mess, but I doubt that there is any connection between them and Redfall.

[Blackhawk]

Every Bethesda RPG releases as a mess. People just tend to forget that later on.

[Daehawk]

Every Bethesda RPG releases as a mess. People just tend to forget that later on.

nod

[hepcat]

I don’t think that’s really true though. They make some huge, ambitious games that have about the same level of trouble most AAA games have in comparison. I think that’s surprisingly good, all things considered.

[Anonymous Bosch]

Oof…


As the Skill Up review concludes, this likely does not bode well for Starfield.

Sorry, but that does not logically follow. Two different studios doing two different things. Arkane made a looter shooter, not something they had never done before, it was totally unlike anything they had done before. Starfield is a tried and true Bethesda RPG, something they have done over and over.

Now Starfield may yet be a mess, but I doubt that there is any connection between them and Redfall.

It's subjective opinion which implies YMMV, but I'm inclined to agree with the viewpoint expressed in the conclusion of the Redfall review as to why Redfall gives cause for concern in terms of having much, if any, faith in Microsoft and Xbox's ability to pick winners, lead studios, or guarantee a quality final product:

“As bad as this is for Arkane and Bethesda, I think it's ultimately worse for Microsoft and Xbox -- this is on them. They purchased Bethesda in 2020, that transaction was finalized in 2021. Immediately, whoever handles internal reviews at Microsoft should've been like, "We cannot release this game." This should have been cancelled or rebooted long ago, using the existing assets to make a totally different type of game that actually played to Arkane's strengths. It's good that Microsoft has a hands-off approach to their studios, but that's only good if those studios are making good things. If they aren't, then it's on Microsoft to step in and be like, "No, we are shutting this down." Now, Redfall is the standard that we might expect from a triple-A Microsoft game. This is where they have lowered the bar to. With zero triple-A exclusives last year, and only two planned for this year -- Redfall and Starfield -- and the Activision and Blizzard deal looking very wobbly, I don't think Xbox has room to let the bar slip this low. I'll be honest, it's genuinely shaken my faith in the future. I really thought they were on to a good thing. But if you are willing to put out something this broken and this bad, then how can anyone have confidence that you won't do it again? I would remind you that the last first party exclusive that Sony released was God of War: Ragnarok, and the next first party exclusive that Nintendo will release is Tears of the Kingdom. Microsoft's answer to that? This. [ cue footage illustrating cretinous Redfall AI ]

Technically, Redfall is busted. From a design perspective, it's amateurish. It's clearly woefully unfinished, and sold for $70.00 -- or more if you buy the deluxe editions. Yet it has less polish and presentation than that of $20.00 indie games. It was unscrupulously marketed by Bethesda, and it's a stain on Microsoft's reputation as a publisher and platform-holder. It's just an absolute catastrophe of a video game by every single metric. It sits alongside the likes of Fallout 76 and Anthem as one of gaming's biggest disappointments and cautionary tales. Funnily enough, together with Fallout 76 and Wolfenstein: Youngblood, Redfall completes a tragic trilogy for Bethesda; products of a time in which the publisher pivoted away from the single-player experiences that made it great, and toward these cynically-motivated always online co-op live service experiences. I'd hoped that Microsoft's purchase of Bethesda would reorient them. But… yeah, I just don't know now, and I am definitely very, very worried about what we can expect from Starfield. And I think everybody else should be as well.”

[Blackhawk]

I don’t think that’s really true though. They make some huge, ambitious games that have about the same level of trouble most AAA games have in comparison. I think that’s surprisingly good, all things considered.

I disagree. I've played most of their games at launch, and I've played plenty of other AAA games. Their games tend to have way, way more problems than the average, and many of them are baked-in design issues that can't just be patched out, from Morrowind's lack of occlusion culling causing major performance issues (if you were outside a town, staring at the town wall from so close that it took up your entire field of view, it would still render in the entire town behind that wall, even though you couldn't see it - that's why Morrowind ran so bad), to Fallout 4's Triangle of Death making savegames unusable if you build the wrong combination of settlements and hard-coded keys that make it impossible to rebind your controls, to Fallout 76's Fallout 76. I enjoy their games quite a bit for the settings and the freedom they offer (I've certainly touted them here enough over the years), and I think they're fun games. But that doesn't make them polished or stable.

Yeah, they make huge, ambitious games that have some incredibly complex systems that work great alone, but which break when interacting. They're terribly optimized. Their games run some infamously messy code that causes a huge number of problems, including a wide range of bugs that you can 'activate' early in the game that can corrupt your save game later, either causing constant crashes in the late game, or causing main quest breaking bugs (in other words, you're doomed from the start), tons of scripts that don't work right, scripts that get 'stuck' in on mode and destroy saves, etc, etc, etc. And unlike most AAA games, there are a number of the bigger bugs that have been in multiple iterations of the games that continue to appear because they never bother to fix them, and simply add bells and whistles to the old engine.

They then fix about 2/3 of the bugs, leaving the rest in place (including the ones that are more complicated that a minor tweak) if they haven't been fixed when sales begin to decline (which is why modded games often run so much better - they leave it to their community to fix the rest of the bugs and issues.)

And then they release a new edition with the old bugs intact.

And then they release a new edition with the old bugs intact.

Hopefully the backlash from Redfall will get Microsoft to take a closer look at how Starfield is coming along. Good oversight is the one thing that Bethesda has always needed, someone to tell them, "This is a good idea, but it needs to work when the player doesn't approach it in the expected manner", or, "This isn't working right - get it fixed and polished."

But enough about how problematic Bethesda is, and back to how problematic Redfall is.

[hepcat]

All I can say is that I’ve never encountered the issues you’ve mentioned…at least not at a level where I consider every game they release “a mess”. I don’t think I’ve ever had any game stopping (or even game slowing) problems with any of their huge RPGs. Sure I’ve encountered bugs, but I see those in almost every game. Fallout 76 was fine, it just felt empty (which they changed later), the issue with towns in Morrowind was annoying, but hardly a major issue. As I said, most large games like they make have similar bugs. I don’t think it’s fair to single them out as being any worse than others.

I do see a lot of complaining about design choices when they release a new game, but that’s hardly a technical issue.

[Scraper]

The way I see it Redfall was pushed out the door whether is was ready or not. Microsoft has been getting hammered in both the press and in console and software sales because they haven't released any first party AAA games in over a year. They had been touting Redfall for so long and already delayed it once. I guarantee the Devs knew it wasn't ready to launch this week but they weren't given a choice because the higher ups needed an answer to the first party drought.

[malchior]

Now Starfield may yet be a mess, but I doubt that there is any connection between them and Redfall.

+1. The only thing that will be in common is that Bethesda isn't generally afraid to push out games on a schedule even if it means they will take some body blows if it is a mess.

[GreenGoo]

Sorry, but that does not logically follow. Two different studios doing two different things. Arkane made a looter shooter, not something they had never done before, it was totally unlike anything they had done before. Starfield is a tried and true Bethesda RPG, something they have done over and over.

Now Starfield may yet be a mess, but I doubt that there is any connection between them and Redfall.

I think the inference is that Redfall and Starfield often shared press releases, and whatever was said about Redfall, was also said about Starfield, including delays and future release dates (i.e. last year both were delayed and both were put off until Q1/2 of 2023).

Shrug.

[Pyperkub]

I'm enjoying single player so far.(XSX) I greatly prefer vampires to zombie hordes.

Still digging in, and haven't tried coop yet (still leveling my character up to get all the abilities) - 1.5 missions and 3-4 hours of stealth/ cautious aka slow play in tho.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

Got a couple more hours in last night, and I'm still enjoying it. I like the vampire queues which generate tension - especially with the lack of an enemy locating minimap - as well as the ubiquitous vampire musings over the air generating atmosphere. I'm playing the telekinetic girl, and I just got to level 3, but haven't tried the elevator ability yet. It was a bit annoying to have to start over again on the mission when my 'single-player' game lost connection to ArkNet a couple of times last night tho. Had a moment where I was working my way back to a safehouse along a cliffside as what seemed like a number of vampires were taunting me, and it eventually turned into a a pretty amazing, tense fight with multiple vampires coming at me from multiple sides while a possible fall to my death hemmed me in.

Of course, I killed them all, but had no ammo left for the cultists just outside the safehouse, and I died...

I'm still hoping to try some co-op this weekend.

[coopasonic]

I like the vampire queues which generate tension - especially with the lack of an enemy locating minimap -

Cues? or are the vampires lining up in a very orderly manner to attack you?

[Pyperkub]

I like the vampire queues which generate tension - especially with the lack of an enemy locating minimap -

Cues? or are the vampires lining up in a very orderly manner to attack you?

Nah, that's the cultists

[Hrothgar]

Phil Spencer apologizes:

[GreenGoo]

He can apologize all he wants. No money for him.

[Alefroth]

If Microsoft manages to turn Bethesda into a garbage developer I am going to be pissed. Fingers crossed for Starfield.

Arkane is the developer.

[JCC]

Arkane is a part of Bethedsa which is of course a part of Microsoft.

[Daehawk]

Id still like to play this.

[JCC]

On a related note, I am worried about Arkane in general. I had little interest in Redfall from the jump, but now after seeing pretty much universally bad reviews, it's now down to zero. I also tried hard to enjoy Deathloop but the reset and repeat mechanic just ruined it for me.

(It's also the reason Majora's Mask is the only 3D Zelda I have never completed despite numerous attempts. I always just get tired of the mechanic - though with MM it the time limit made it even worse for me.)

Deathloop at least didn't have a dumbass timer which was way better, but I still just couldn't sustain interest in the constant replaying of missions, even with the change ups based on time of day.

I have pretty much given up on a 3rd Dishonored game, which makes me very sad. Dishonored scratched my "Thief" itch (and was very fun to play outside of stealth too), and now it appears to be just as dead.

[Scoop20906]

I finally decided to try out Redfall and I wanted to see how the multiplayer is since its being pushed that this is the best experience.

So I look for a lobby... Hmm, nope. I see only play game and host game. Well, I guess I can host a game. Then I get to the "Lobby". Ok, how do I get paired with people? Hmmm, ok lets see if google can help.

As Redfall doesn’t support random matchmaking—in other words, you can’t actually play with strangers online—you’ll need to follow some steps to squad up with others.

What? No matchmaking. AT ALL? I'm speechless.

[hepcat]

[Smoove_B]

Dead Island 2 doesn't have a way to save the game, which kinda surprises me in 2023. But creating a MP game that doesn't have matchmaking? That's a bold choice. I'd love to know the rationale for how that was going to work.

[Scoop20906]

I can only guess that they couldn’t get it to work so they shipped without it telling themselves they will add it later.

I’ll say I’m not impressed with the game’s performance either. It chugs at times on medium settings and I’m really not seeing much of a difference between the graphics and art style in this game and the original Dishonored and Prey which I can get to run butter smooth. It could be all the lighting effects maybe? I love the music and tone but really it’s hard for me to give time while Jedi Survivor is stellar for practically the same price.

[Alefroth]

Arkane is a part of Bethedsa which is of course a part of Microsoft.

Arkane and Bethesda are both owned by Zenimax which is owned by Microsoft.