Octopus Overlords

I waited six months to post this here. It's going to be avoided like the plague. I'll start this off by saying I am doing what I can to prepare. Looking into joining the DSA to network. Mutual aid groups. The John Brown gun club. Things are going to get worse in 2022, 24. The Republicans want to take our country down a path that will be unsustainable. Something will break. It always does.

What are you doing to prepare?

I wish you better luck than I had.

But I stand by my general approach.

• Build your own firearm. This is actually a lot of fun if you're remotely into fiddling with machined stuff. It's also surprisingly easy and affordable, assuming you want the basic package. Just get yourself an 80-percent lower, drill it out, and then accessorize. (not gonna lie, this is a lot easier if you have access to a drill press, but you CAN do it with a hand drill if you want) Virtually everything you need can be shipped to your house. It's perfectly legal in most states, so long as you aren't going to sell or transfer the gun. And at the end of it, you'll have a weapon that nobody has any way of knowing about. I started with the AR, but my friend just completed a 9MM, and that looked even easier. Might try that one next.
• Make friends with your neighbors. Of my two tips, this is by far the more important. If things ever really DO go south in this country, there won't really be a shortage of guns about, but you're always going to need someone to watch out for you while you sleep. The world has seen several countries disintegrate in my lifetime, and groups that are more cohesive and more organized always do better than those that are not. The bigger your local circle of friends, the better off you are likely to be.

Drinking lots of Nuka Cola and saving all my caps.

Seriously, the fall of US democracy isn't going to take us into a version of Mad Max or The Walking Dead.

It's going to take us into a generic, corporate-ruled cyberpunk dystopia.

For most people there won't be much of a noticeable change at all, at least not until you're sitting there with your kids or grand-kids and looking back.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:31 pm
What are you doing to prepare?

I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night!

..

....

.......

But seriously, this country...and democracy...have weathered far worse. I may get discouraged from time to time, but it's definitely not "end times".

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:31 pm I waited six months to post this here. It's going to be avoided like the plague. I'll start this off by saying I am doing what I can to prepare. Looking into joining the DSA to network. Mutual aid groups. The John Brown gun club. Things are going to get worse in 2022, 24. The Republicans want to take our country down a path that will be unsustainable. Something will break. It always does.

What are you doing to prepare?

If you’re willing to organize for the politics of collapse (network, aid group, club), wouldn’t it be better to organize for the politics of preventing collapse?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:47 pm Seriously, the fall of US democracy isn't going to take us into a version of Mad Max or The Walking Dead.

It's going to take us into a generic, corporate-ruled cyberpunk dystopia.

For most people there won't be much of a noticeable change at all, at least not until you're sitting there with your kids or grand-kids and looking back.

Only if you believe that the American people, of whom (I heard this quoted on a podcast somewhere so ymmv) 40 percent of don't have more then a few hundred dollars in a bank account to cover emergencies will consent to just dying on the street the next time they lose a job, or face the next huge economic event with no social safety net.

People in America (especially the ones in power) would like to think that America is "exceptional" in the sense that it will not face the tides of history. In other words that the forces that brought down other countries in the past could never happen here. Revolutions and unrest and the like. I think that they are wrong. We are not unique.

The Republicans are trying to bring about an apartheid dystopia, the majority of people in this country are POC and work for a living. I really don't think the powers that be can hold the pot lid down forever. Especially when the social safety net is non existent.

Especially with one political party hell bent on turning the misery index to 11 and the other party (for all their hand wringing and lip service) is content to allow them.

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:01 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:31 pm I waited six months to post this here. It's going to be avoided like the plague. I'll start this off by saying I am doing what I can to prepare. Looking into joining the DSA to network. Mutual aid groups. The John Brown gun club. Things are going to get worse in 2022, 24. The Republicans want to take our country down a path that will be unsustainable. Something will break. It always does.

What are you doing to prepare?

If you’re willing to organize for the politics of collapse (network, aid group, club), wouldn’t it be better to organize for the politics of preventing collapse?

Nope. You can't have politics where one side is a death cult, and the other side allows them. And the system is rigged to not allow for necessary changes to prevent this collapse.

I'm not sure what you're basing your assumptions on, but whatever it is, it isn't reality. If democracy were to fall it wouldn't be into chaos. It would just be a different government, and they wouldn't spur people to rebel. It wouldn't suit their interests or benefit them. They don't want people to suffer, they want people to make them money, and people make them money by working.

It wouldn't be a 'fall' at all, just a change, and a slow and subtle one, at least for most. In fact, at least at first, what you'd see is a lack of change, as in the positive social changes.

I'm still hoping we find a way out.

Ya um like others mentioned you aren't going to see Mad Max shit. You're just going to see more crap like in Florida where they control what you do. They still need people to do things so having it go all Thunder Dome isn't going to help them much. There are a lot of people in Russia that LOVE Putin. I know people that moved here from Russia who adore him. Look at Russia that's what we're steering towards. Arresting the opposition? Fair game! Silencing the media. For sure! Banning abortion? Already working on it!

So ya it will suck, but it's not what you are thinking it is.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:15 pm They don't want people to suffer,

Where have you been living and can I join you there? The horrific changes we've seen in our government in the last 25 or so years? The GOP efforts to screw anyone who works for a living and the openly racist policies pursued against the majority in this country has been *astounding*. Think most people would consent to live in a government where they are homeless and can't make ends meet and can't foresee a better life for their children?

The US isin't a special snowflake. We are subject to all of the historical forces that forced collapse in every other country that took the same path.

France and Russia thought they were immune too. After a long enough period of time people will react to destroy their oppressor's. You can't lie to an entire population forever.

At a certain point even the stonk market will collapse and cause an unemployment rate that will undo even the mighty Fed's effort to keep things together.

Yeah. It will even look like democracy. It'll be far less dynamic, just, and prosperous even compared to now for certain populations. Which is what upsets me the most.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:26 pm Think most people would consent to live in a government where they are homeless and can't make ends meet and can't foresee a better life for their children?

Counterpoint - the Great Depression.

I started a decade ago (well, actually probably almost 4 decades ago with Scouting). First aid training, field trauma training, CPR, etc. Combat pistol training, combat carbine training, weaponsmithing, several hundred hours and tens of thousands of rounds downrange. Neighborhood volunteerism, board memberships. Bugout plans, shelter in place plans.

Really it's mostly about training and learning. All the guns and ammo and supplies in the world won't do you any good if you don't know how to use them.

And then it's about understanding that it's still 80% luck. You can't live your normal life in constant fear of The Undoing. Do what you can to prepare, stay on top of the perishable skills, and go live your normal life.

Most likely there will be sporadic periods and areas of unrest but not likely to be total collapse.

Little Raven wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 3:35 pm But I stand by my general approach.

• Build your own firearm. This is actually a lot of fun if you're remotely into fiddling with machined stuff. It's also surprisingly easy and affordable, assuming you want the basic package. Just get yourself an 80-percent lower, drill it out, and then accessorize. (not gonna lie, this is a lot easier if you have access to a drill press, but you CAN do it with a hand drill if you want) Virtually everything you need can be shipped to your house. It's perfectly legal in most states, so long as you aren't going to sell or transfer the gun. And at the end of it, you'll have a weapon that nobody has any way of knowing about. I started with the AR, but my friend just completed a 9MM, and that looked even easier. Might try that one next.

I'd build one for fun but not for staking my life and safety on. I'll stick with a good factory gun that I've put a 1,000+ rounds through. And a second one for backup/parts.

Drazzil, did you ever find a job? Done anything to try to make your own life better? Or have you just spent all your time the last 18 months fantasizing about doomsday scenarios that have almost no chance of happening?

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:26 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:15 pm They don't want people to suffer,

The US isin't a special snowflake. We are subject to all of the historical forces that forced collapse in every other country that took the same path.

I must have missed the Mad Max dune buggies section of Hungary when I went there a couple years ago. That being said, we just bought a company there. I'll slack the guys there and see how their societal collapse is faring.

At a certain point even the stonk market will collapse and cause an unemployment rate that will undo even the mighty Fed's effort to keep things together.

True. In the Mad Max scenario that almost certainly won't happen. Climate change is going to kick our asses more probably than some systemic political collapse. For all we know, they might be able to keep people happy by dropping stimmy checks on folks every once in awhile from the vaults of our kleptocratic overlords.

That said I am hedging my bets a bit and investing in some practical camp gear...that I wanted anyway.

Ok, subtly aside - you're paranoid and delusional. It isn't going to happen. More than three times as many people didn't vote for Trump as did, and the Republicans know that. They're ruling out of the ignorance and apathy of the public. Most people simply don't see what's happening, or they don't care. The Republicans know that if they pull they rug out from under tens of millions of people at once, they're going to get angry. Something something, sleeping giant. They want power, they want money. And to get that they need to not have millions of people hanging them from the Washington Monument. In other words, they have to keep people content.

Now, if America did become the Nation of Trump, is slowly eroding rights and programs over the next sixty years a possibility? Maybe. But that hasn't happened yet, and frothing at the mouth because you think the Republicans have a secret stockpile of jackboots and are going to start kicking in doors the day after they win the next election isn't useful. In fact, it's downright harmful. To you and the rest of society.

Seriously, Drazzil. You've wandered over the edge. Get some help.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:29 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:26 pm Think most people would consent to live in a government where they are homeless and can't make ends meet and can't foresee a better life for their children?

Counterpoint - the Great Depression.

Counterpoint: There was DEFINITELY revolutionary fervor during the depression. The only thing that put an end to that was FDR's programs. Do we have FDR this time around?

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:42 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:29 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:26 pm Think most people would consent to live in a government where they are homeless and can't make ends meet and can't foresee a better life for their children?

Counterpoint - the Great Depression.

Counterpoint: There was DEFINITELY revolutionary fervor during the depression. The only thing that put an end to that was FDR's programs. Do we have FDR this time around?

FDR built out a ton of infrastructure that over time has largely eliminated the need for revolutionary change. For instance, in 1932 only 10% of rural America was electrified. The biggest problem now is people still hear dial tone in some places. Most people accept the massive inequities they live with. Heck many aren't even aware of *waving hands around* any of this stuff we talk about.

Spoiler'ed for non P&C content.

You're quite literally a living counterpoint to your own theories. Not sure if you realize that.

For me the collapse of society of any kind on any level just requires one bullet.

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:34 pm ]True. In the Mad Max scenario that almost certainly won't happen. Climate change is going to kick our asses more probably than some systemic political collapse.

Why not both? Based on how the GOP and Trump shrugged off what happened in Puerto Rico, I'm more confident now that depending on where you live in the continental U.S. the future response to the next large-scale weather event might be rather similar when the GOP seizes full control. Another Sandy-level event for NJ and NY? Too bad.

Flooding, earthquakes, fires, etc.... might make life in America real interesting for some folks when the federal government just shrugs their shoulders.

Because really, when would they ever do that? It's not like we have a recent crisis event where the federal government told the states to just figure it out.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:35 pm The Republicans know that if they pull they rug out from under tens of millions of people at once, they're going to get angry.

Federal unemployment ending in red states, the millions of time they took a shot at Obamacare their handling of covid, need I go on? How far does the rug need to be pulled for you to admit that you don't have a rug to stand on?

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:33 pm You're quite literally a living counterpoint to your own theories. Not sure if you realize that.

Nope. I am quite the exception to the way people like me are treated. I lucked into having my mom moved into a home at just the right moment, so I could take over her section 8, most section 8 vouchers are not transferable. Lucked into a good county that stiil has benefits that for people who are disabled in some way (as I am) that I didn't need to immediately find work right away. I lucked into an all electric apartment that has ASTOUNDINGLY good insulation so my utilities don't run over my allotment for the month, Foods paid for through food stamps, because I know how to cook.

The norm for people who struggle with issues as I do, and have no income is in a tent on the street. The average is much much lower then the circumstances I find myself.

Again I quote one of the great philosophers of our times, Bill Burr:

Preppers are just collecting food and guns for the baddest fucker on the block.

Ive stocked lots of ice cream in my cabinet.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:17 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:33 pm You're quite literally a living counterpoint to your own theories. Not sure if you realize that.

Nope. I am quite the exception to the way people like me are treated. I lucked into having my mom moved into a home at just the right moment, so I could take over her section 8, most section 8 vouchers are not transferable. Lucked into a good county that stiil has benefits that for people who are disabled in some way (as I am) that I didn't need to immediately find work right away. I lucked into an all electric apartment that has ASTOUNDINGLY good insulation so my utilities don't run over my allotment for the month, Foods paid for through food stamps, because I know how to cook.

The norm for people who struggle with issues as I do, and have no income is in a tent on the street. The average is much much lower then the circumstances I find myself.

That wasn’t luck. That’s the very things you say don’t exist telling you they exist.

I don’t disagree that there are truly desperate people in horrible situations right now. Or that if the GOP gets their way, there will likely be lots more.

However, I think that you’re vastly underestimating how many people actually need to end up in that situation in order to lead to the sort of widespread social unrest/Mad Max scenario you’re describing. Most Americans are both at least nominally comfortable (I.e. have someplace to live, aren’t starving, etc.) and pretty lazy. The number that would be willing to risk throwing away everything for La Révolution is incredibly small.

Not saying that number can’t increase, but I’d bet large sums of money that it doesn’t happen in our lifetimes.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:17 pm The norm for people who struggle with issues as I do, and have no income is in a tent on the street. The average is much much lower then the circumstances I find myself.

Desperate people will accept the promises of a strong-man authoritarian before they engage in the hard, dangerous, and uncertain work of revolution. Or even the easier and less dangerous work of actual political activism.

Hell, didn't you admit to voting Trump in 2016?

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 6:16 pm For me the collapse of society of any kind on any level just requires one bullet.

Yeah, you shoot the guy with more bullets. Or he shoots you. Either way...

I'm a straight white guy from the south so I'm just going to keep on keepin' on. I can blend in.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:52 pm Not saying that number can’t increase, but I’d bet large sums of money that it doesn’t happen in our lifetimes.

I agree, which is why I don't think the leaders of this hypothetical nation of the future wouldn't push the way Drazzil thinks they will. They'll let people stay fat, happy, and stupid.

That isn't to say that they won't turn up the heat under their frog pot a little.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:05 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:35 pm The Republicans know that if they pull they rug out from under tens of millions of people at once, they're going to get angry.

Federal unemployment ending in red states

One thing the pandemic and its aftermath revealed is that our economy depends on poverty. We need lots of poor people to do all those shitty jobs. The oligarchs don't want them to revolt or die out; they'd prefer that we have more of them, as long as they don't forget their place. Republicans won't pretend to fight poverty, but they will maintain the minimum dole necessary to keep the underclass placid.

YellowKing wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:13 pm I'm a straight white guy from the south so I'm just going to keep on keepin' on. I can blend in.

And I'm an old straight white guy with a comfortable life in a wealthy and reliably liberal state. As long as society continues to function, I'll be OK. I can't imagine that many Americans will inconvenience themselves to save democracy. Life will go on as normal, even while normal slowly deteriorates.

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:06 pm

Drazzil wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:17 pm The norm for people who struggle with issues as I do, and have no income is in a tent on the street. The average is much much lower then the circumstances I find myself.

Desperate people will accept the promises of a strong-man authoritarian before they engage in the hard, dangerous, and uncertain work of revolution. Or even the easier and less dangerous work of actual political activism.

Hell, didn't you admit to voting Trump in 2016?

After Hillary Clinton openly admitted that nothing would change from the Obama years, yes I voted for Trump, in an area that went for Clinton anyway. And I paid for it, by watching the guy I voted for kill my mother. Can we please, PLEASE move on?

As a matter of fact, this thread has become about me. I don't want it to be. Perhaps maybe I should moderate my opinions in the future, maybe concentrate on the fact that I *know* in the event of a revolution, that myself AND my poor cats will prolly, at some point, be on the menu and move forward.

I should, since there are a hell of a lot of people wanting to make this thread about me, post an "about Drazzil" thread in the EBG forum. I think I will tonight. That said, if you guys maybe wanna talk about the topic at hand, there is a thread for it... Or you know, not. Its a depressing topic.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:15 pm I'm not sure what you're basing your assumptions on, but whatever it is, it isn't reality. If democracy were to fall it wouldn't be into chaos. It would just be a different government, and they wouldn't spur people to rebel. It wouldn't suit their interests or benefit them. They don't want people to suffer, they want people to make them money, and people make them money by working.

It wouldn't be a 'fall' at all, just a change, and a slow and subtle one, at least for most. In fact, at least at first, what you'd see is a lack of change, as in the positive social changes.

I'm still hoping we find a way out.

I'm not certain of that. If the Republicans do blatantly overturn elections at the state level I can see blue states potentially refusing to go along and pushing for secession. That could lead to conflict. I have to imagine some response if, say, Biden takes Georgia or Florida and the government overrules it and gives the votes to the R candidate.

gbasden wrote: ↑Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:49 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Jun 23, 2021 4:15 pm I'm not sure what you're basing your assumptions on, but whatever it is, it isn't reality. If democracy were to fall it wouldn't be into chaos. It would just be a different government, and they wouldn't spur people to rebel. It wouldn't suit their interests or benefit them. They don't want people to suffer, they want people to make them money, and people make them money by working.

It wouldn't be a 'fall' at all, just a change, and a slow and subtle one, at least for most. In fact, at least at first, what you'd see is a lack of change, as in the positive social changes.

I'm still hoping we find a way out.

I'm not certain of that. If the Republicans do blatantly overturn elections at the state level I can see blue states potentially refusing to go along and pushing for secession. That could lead to conflict. I have to imagine some response if, say, Biden takes Georgia or Florida and the government overrules it and gives the votes to the R candidate.

Nah, Dem leadership would urge restraint and promise a very thorough investigation once they get the GOP on board through bipartisanship.

The biggest problem is that the groups that are already being marginalized and discriminated against will just be even MORE marginalized and discriminated against. Those who enjoy privilege now will still enjoy privilege. Maybe even more privilege, at the cost of the marginalized.

Absolutely. Progress on social issues would stop like it had hit a brick wall. Gay rights? Abortion rights? They may not start stripping rights (especially not right away), but I wouldn't expect to see them advance much, either.

That bit on abortion rights got me thinking: How much would their platform change? In other words, how many "core Republican issues" would be completely forgotten if they suddenly didn't have to cater to the voters for reelection?