Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

I just picked up Nebuchadnezzar (Steam link). I was once again going through my Steam wishlist looking for something new. I've had Nebuchadnezzar on my list for quite a while and have been following their newsfeed. In the year+ since it has been out of Early Access there have been numerous updates as the developers expand the game by adding new features as well as killing bugs and tweaking gameplay.

From the Steam page:
Nebuchadnezzar is a classic isometric city builder game inviting players to experience the mysterious history and culture of ancient Mesopotamia. In the campaign, players get to rule over influential historical cities filled with magnificent monuments.
For those of you old enough :wink:, the gameplay will remind you of the old Pharaoh game by Sierra Studios Impressions Games.

I'm doing the tutorial right now so I'll post some screenshots. A look at the intro to the first tutorial:
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And the first screen of the tutorial
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We build some houses for the peasants
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Now we've built a farm, a bakery and a couple of warehouses.
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That's it for now. When the wheat matures my farmers will harvest it, the bakers will bake and then the haulers will move it to the warehouse. More to come.
Last edited by jztemple2 on Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Wow, had no idea this existed, and I LOVE city builders.

It looks so much like Caesar/Pharoah, even down to the exact same wording in the messages ("A fire has broken out") I would be shocked if they aren't getting some lawyerly letters. Not that I am complaining, mind you...I think it's great someone is even making these anymore.

Not sure if you know but they are in process of giving at least Pharoah (maybe Zeus?) a new coat of paint as it were...unsure when it's supposed to come out:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1351 ... A_New_Era/
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Looks like a game I got called Sumarians.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Mar 21, 2022 8:40 am Not sure if you know but they are in process of giving at least Pharoah (maybe Zeus?) a new coat of paint as it were...unsure when it's supposed to come out:

https://store.steampowered.com/app/1351 ... A_New_Era/
I saw that, but I'm dubious about any early claims until it hits the streets. Even then, I will probably do what I've done with Nebuchadnezzar, wait until some time after the 1.0 release for bug fixes and new features.

By the way, I was thinking about Nebuchadnezzar last night and I figured out for those of you who are old grognards, this game is the city builder equivalent of the old "beer & pretzel" paper wargames from SPI or Avalon Hill that many of us used to play. Not terribly deep, but engaging to play.

So I'm up to the forth tutorial mission. You start with a bare map, but I figured that would be kind of a dull screenshot :wink:. You can see the objectives at the top right. You need to have 2,000 population, 32 standard houses and a temple.
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And what is a standard house? It's the third level in house progression. You start off by placing shacks, which have no needs but only allow of max of 33 people. To get to the next level, a poor house with a pop of 70, you need to supply the house with milk and bread.
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To get to the standard house (107 people) you need to provide it with water from a well and also ceramics.
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To give you more information there are a variety of statistical charts. As can be seen in the mouse-over window, I currently have one shack and 16 poor houses. They'll be a lot to do to reach the goal of 32 standard houses.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Announcement from the devs:
At Nebuchadnezzar, we have always emphasized history. And since wars played an irreplaceable role in the history of ancient Mesopotamia, we think they should not be missing in the game. War will therefore be a major addition in the upcoming 1.4 Update.

It will include the following:
- Extended diplomacy
- Walls and wars
- Expansion of the main campaign with several missions taking full advantage of the new war mechanics.

On the other hand, Nebuchadnezzar has always been focused on economics and logistics. And we want to preserve this, so the design of war will be done with this in mind.

Because of that we have decided not to add any RTS mechanics. Your city building and city management skills will still be the most important. Now you will also have to take care of the security of your city against external threats. But on the other hand, you will be able to take advantage of the benefits that a strong army brings.

The Adventures of Sargon DLC

In addition, the first DLC for Nebuchadnezzar will be released together with the 1.4 Update. In this story-focused DLC, you'll play as one of the most famous rulers of ancient Mesopotamia, Sargon II, and relive all of his important campaigns and achievements. Suppress dangerous rebellions, conquer the surrounding empires and ultimately restore the glory of the Assyrian Empire.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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I'm starting on the six mission of the campaign. The first five missions had tutorial help, which can be turned off on a later playthrough. This next mission stops the hand holding but still introduces new concepts, like Priest who are a service needed to achieve Spacious Villa status, which is part of the victory conditions.

This map is larger still and a lesson I learned from the previous mission is the importance of placing the food generators for the first step up for the peasants living quarters, going from shack to poor house, which gives each abode a jump from 33 to 70 workers. So I'm paused at the very start and establishing what I think might be the best locations for the early farms.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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I'm now on the seventh mission of the campaign. There are three objectives, but unlike the last couple of times I don't need to build a temple or have a requirement for a certain level of villas. The population requirement is quite large.
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There is a requirement for 32 Spacious Houses, these are the fourth level of home for the peasant class. The new requirements for that level are beer, which needs barley and a brewery, and administrators who need tablets which are made from clay. The administrators are service walkers like the priests and also like the priests, they are Townfolk so I'll not only have to build villas but also provide dates and fish to get a basic population living there.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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I've expanded the minimap at the bottom right to its maximum size so the details of the map can be seen. Also, as may be seen from the minimap, the area shown in the big window is most of the whole map. That's not all that much area to cram in 8500 folks!
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First thing to think about when laying out the town are the requirements for the first step up of the peasants, which requires milk and bread. That means wheat and livestock farms and also bakeries. Those farms can only use green squares (they have enough water) and there's little enough on the map, so I'll have to use waterwheels on the rivers on the SW and NE edges.

As I've learned, the workers don't have to be adjacent to their jobs, they will "walk" to them wherever they are on the map. So Peasant Town :wink: can be laid out for the best servicing by market walkers. Since I need to have at least 32 Spacious Houses, which have a population of 149 each, that's only about 4,800 folks, a bit more than half way to my goal of needing 8,500 total folks. So I think I'll break Peasant Town up into two areas, one with 32 houses that will eventually become Spacious, and another area or two that can remain at the level Poor House (pop 107 each). I might even find it useful for some outlying villages to remain with Shacks (pop 70 each).

Oops, here's a rub. See in that small window I've opened in the upper left, that number "3.0" next to the cursor. That's the Appeal value needed for that house to reach level 4, Spacious House. Below level 4 it doesn't matter what kind of squalid neighborhood the peasants live in, but to reach level 4 there has to be a bit of niceness to the house, you know like a lawn or a fancy sidewalk. Hmm.
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Or a fancy street! I've added nice street tiles and achieved an Appeal level of 3.4 for the house, as seen by the cursor in the window. I just had to avoid placing something like a trash dump nearby :wink:
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And here's the final result, 32 shacks that should evolve into Spacious Houses.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Here's my next problem. You can see those serious rocky squares, but there are also rough squares too.
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Farms houses can be put on those rough squares, but the actual squares where food is grow or cattle graze has to be flat. And of course the square needs water too. Maybe it wasn't too smart building my village on a whole passel of flat squares.
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Here's a solution, put a waterwheel on one of the central lakes and place the farm crop fields on the newly waters squares. One problem with using irrigation canals is that the square where the canal goes can't be farmed. If you look at the opened window at the upper left, notice what the cursor is pointing at. Each farmer card can farm a max of 18 field squares. A farm is a square of 9x9 tiles, total of 81 tiles. Nine of those tiles comprise the farmhouse and a few more are for the connecting road. If I had the maximum of four farmer "cards" (each card is thirty workers, not divisible) plus the one hauler "card", I could farm almost the full ~69 tiles, but between the canal and the dry tiles I can get by with two farmer cards to farm the 32 tiles I have selected.
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Confused yet? :? Give it time, I've put in about twelve hours and I'm just getting the hang of it. I'd have to say this game is more than just a "beer and pretzels" city builder after all :wink:
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

Let's talk trade. Trade is very important in Nebuchadnezzar. Even if you don't really need to import something for the missions (and often you'll need to) exporting goods makes good money and you will need that money after a few years or you'll go bankrupt.

On the map you'll see seven triangles marking cities. The red one is yours. The green ones are cities who have already contacted you, while the grey triangles are ones who won't talk to you till your Prestige is higher.
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Let's look at Dilmun. To initiate any trade with them first you'll have to send a gift of either 20 copper jewelry or 35 ceramic pottery. Since I don't even have copper ingots on this map I'd sent pottery, once I start making pottery. And once I start being able to send out pottery I'd get 18 gold for each piece, up to a limit of 30 pieces each year. That's the starting amount, as my reputation builds with the city I'll be able to send them more each year.
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We'll look at one more example. I'd like to be able to export fish. They are the easier export good, you can usually catch them right next to the port from where you will be exporting them. If I use the filter ability shown on the lower left of the window, I can see who wants fish. Only the city of Nippur does, but I don't have enough Prestige to even offer them a gift yet. I need a Prestige rating of 70, and I have all of 1 right now :roll:. From experience I know it takes a while to get to 70, so I won't be exporting to Nippur just yet. By the way, there are some cities who won't have anything to export to you, even if you can export goods to them.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Are you finding that this game is pretty much a clone of the Caesar/Pharoah games, but in a prettier package, or are there any strategic or gameplay differences?
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 3:03 pm Are you finding that this game is pretty much a clone of the Caesar/Pharoah games, but in a prettier package, or are there any strategic or gameplay differences?
I don't really remember enough about those older games to say if it is a clone or not, but it seems to elicit the same feel I remember from those games. Nebuchadnezzar has strategic elements with regard to trading with other cities and with the upcoming 1.4 version there will be military requirements, but pretty much it is everything happening on the one map, like the old games. Not to say that there isn't a lot happening on that map, there is. Each new campaign mission (I'm on my seven now) unlocks new buildings and other aspects. Planning is very important, but if you goof up where you, say, put your bakeries, you can move them without too much effort. There are more plates spinning with each new mission, but the game doesn't have a frantic feel to it like some other city builders do. I seem to remember that this was the way I felt about Caesar and Pharaoh.

Also, and this is important to me, there isn't the "death spiral" aspect you get in Banished or in the more recent Timberborn, where if you fail to plan properly almost everyone dies and it takes forever to get the city back on track. In Nebuchadnezzar if, for instance, you get busy with other things and neglect that you've run out of bread and your houses start reverting to a lower stage, some portion of the population leaves but you still have plenty of folks. You'll need to shift around some workers and deactivate some currently unneeded buildings so the remaining population can concentrate on getting bread production back on track. But it's not a catastrophe.

In a way, it's rather like the more recent Anno series, like Anno 1800, but all the gameplay takes place on a single island rather than multiple ones. You don't need to build ships for trade, just set up a port, provide resources there and other cities sent their ships to buy and sell. Things like providing resources to the workers requires "walkers" rather than just being in range of a market like in Anno 1800 but like Anno a worker living in any residence can work at any facility in the city, no worrying about means of getting there like Cities: Skyline or the Tropico series.

In a way, you could say for familiarity purposes that it is like playing Anno 1800 on a larger island with most of the resources present. There aren't the bells and whistles of Anno 1800, no semi-animated characters talking to you and pop-up missions requiring you to look all over the island for loose pigs :roll:, but there is very solid gameplay in Nebuchadnezzar. The in-game help is quite good and although it doesn't have the mouse-over pop-ups like Crusader Kings III it isn't too hard to find out most of what you are looking for.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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So let's see how our city is doing right now. These are the two main residential areas. The one on the left is the one I intend to evolve all the way to Spacious Houses. The one on the right is for more population to reach that needed 8,500 folks. It's not as fancy but then I'm not trying to reach a level where Appeal is important. And since right now both residential areas have the same needs (milk, bread, pottery and well water) it is better that they be located near each other so they can share those warehouses.
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This is the house level overlay of the same view. This gives me a quick glance to see if any houses aren't leveled as high as others. There are also overlays for risks such as fire, disease and crime and also for appeal and pollution.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Gah. If I end up buying this, it's on your head!!
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Mar 23, 2022 4:02 pm Gah. If I end up buying this, it's on your head!!
Heavy is the Head that wears the Crown :D

I'm running out of bread again :roll:. Here's my next wheat farm, this one can employ three farmers because I used an irrigation canal to move water around the property. I could have moved that fire station and eeked out some more tiles for planting, but I think this is good.
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Here's another example, a barley farm. I have 55 tiles cultivated, but with three farmers only 54 were actually planted. Hiring 30 more workers isn't worth the extra tile.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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My objectives for this mission don't even mention needing villas, but for many of the products that need to be produced, you require Townsfolk, who live in villas. So I built this really nice neighborhood which has villas at level 2, since level 1 is an empty building :roll:. However, if you look at the screenshot, at the top just to the right of the center, you can see that the cursor is highlighting the unemployment level of the townsfolk, which is 2%. In other words, just to add building to make resources I'm going to have to upgrade those villas to level 3, which requires copper jewelry and roving priests, which require even more townsfolk. It's a vicious cycle! :D
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Here's the actual requirements
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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I'm now on the next mission, mission seven, set at Nippur. I'm playing on the Easy difficulty. I played Normal difficulty last mission and I felt that it was more rigorous than I really preferred. The Easy difficulty will still be a challenge but less stressful :roll:. The objectives for this mission are pretty huge. Eleven thousand population is about half again of my previous mission and the needed prestige of the last mission was tough at 500, this mission wants 680 :roll:. And they need 32 luxurious villas... oh, and a temple.
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This is how you get to that luxurious villa. I'll need a steady supply of ivory and papyrus, both imported from Memphis (the one in Egypt :wink:).
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The temple (a monument) takes a long while, so I'll start off by building a village of shacks so I have enough peasants to provide labor for clay pits and brick making works.
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Also it is important to get going on exports right away to avoid any money issues. The easiest exports to prepare are barley and dates, so I've created one farm of each near warehouses and a port. Happily there are fertile tiles along where the road is, or was. I was able to destroy the road tiles and create a new road further away, leaving those fertile tiles available for farms without resorting to irrigation.
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One of the things I've figured out in the game is to see how many ports can be placed on the map. It's not necessarily easy, there has to be three tiles in a row on the water in a straight line. On this map there are three locations like that, I'll spread out my export industries along the river to avoid bunching.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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So I'm working now on the Luxurious Villas. As can be seen, luxurious villas need a pollution level of less than eight and an appeal level of at least thirteen.
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And here's my solution. Thirty-two villas placed in pretty close proximity, better than I did with the last mission yet achieving higher appeal levels. The outside villas are next to each other with a 2x2 tile decoration behind each. In the center of the loop I have two villas, then a row of statuary, then the next two. I've tried to vary the statuary purely on esthetic grounds, not only are there a number of statue types, but I can select the two primary colors of each. It cost thousands of gold to place all those statues, but then I have tens of thousands of gold thank to my early emphasis on setting up exports.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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I'm now on mission 9, Babylon, and I've been playing for awhile. Aside from the requirements for population and prestige, I also have to build eleven Beautiful Residences. These are the homes of the Aristocrats, the third and I think final type of population. Heaven knows where I'm going to wedge in eleven estates, as you can see from the minimap at the bottom right I'm already getting pressed for space and I still have a lot to add.
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Let's talk about religion for a bit. I've just kicked off a grand festival to celebrate three of the local gods. I used importing and set up single facilities just so I could have the commodities required to hold the grand festival level which is why I'm a bit short now on ceremonial objects and copper jewelry since I used up several of each. Added a different screenshot showing the Grand Festival with all commodities.
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And this is why those festivals are important. Getting bigger multipliers (the green lines) increases the effects each god has globally and locally where the shrine is located. Holding festivals raises those multipliers and allows me to place more shrines to that god, very important due to the local effects.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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So on to mission 10, the City of Dur-Kurigalzu. Objectives are pretty much like the last mission, including the need for eleven Luxurious Residences, although the population and prestige requirements are higher. I do have to complete a Temple but I've been doing that on each mission for the prestige anyway. Again, I'm playing on Easy difficulty because I'm not one who likes to plan layouts in the amount of detail that some folks do.
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The map feels a bit bigger, but there are fewer tiles already moist enough to support crops or grazing. There are a few small patches, but certainly not enough to use for farms I'll need. I'll be able to use a few of the tiles on the left side of the map for irrigation pumps, but the required tile layout is (purposely) finicky. On the right is the river where I can get access to more tiles that will support irrigation, but the longer the irrigation canal is made the greater the number of irrigation pumps needed to keep water in it. So the best approach is to put my farms and pastures right up against the river, except for the places I need to leave for a couple of ports.
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Here's my next challenge, trade. I already have a lot of gold so I won't need to jump into trade right away which is a good thing since only two cities are on good enough terms with me to trade. Of those two cities, Susa only wants furniture from me, but I have no access to planks from which to make the furniture. And Qift wants copper jewelry.. but I have no indigenous copper wait, I do have copper! It's on the other side of the river! However, I only need a prestige of 50 (which isn't much) to open trade with Magan, who wants beer (which I can make right away) and will send me copper, so I can make jewelry for Qift. UPDATE: Since I have copper on the other side of the river, I just need to make a bridge... yup, that's a new infrastructure option in this mission :D
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By the way, are folks still following this thread? It's Friday night, everyone is probably just sitting around home, right? :wink:
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Here's a look at the new bridges. I see that they automatically have a high section so boats can get through, although I feel sorry for the poor pack donkeys that have to climb that grade! Bridges cost 500 gold, but that's not per tile, that's for the entire bank to bank span. So no reason not to go for long stretches. However, just like irrigation pumps and ports, the bank tile needs to be in the proper orientation and without impediments on each side, and the bridge can only be straight so you need a tile like that on each bank directly across from each other.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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So now that I know that I have copper, I want to set up exporting copper jewelry to Qift in Egypt. I've placed a port on the right side of the map near the copper fields, so I don't need to lug copper or jewelry across the river.
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However, to make the jewelry I just can't throw up some shacks for peasants. No, the copper workshop needs Townsfolk.
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And townsfolk need to live in standard villas with a supply of fish and dates. And I need peasants to catch the fish and grown the dates. So just to start exporting copper jewelry I need two types of homes, fishing piers, date orchards, copper mines and copper workshops. Thank goodness these people have a retired engineer to do the heavy planning for them! :mrgreen:
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Or I can just make beer to open trade with Magan and just import the damn copper :roll:
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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So it's now the next afternoon and I've progressed farther on this city. Check out the minimap. Light green are pastures, yellow are farms, light blue are homes and dark blue are ports.
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Here's a better view of those ports on each side of the river. Boats from other cities visit each port you have on each trip.
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However, I need copper jewelry for my villas so I've had to add a second bridge so that the caravans can get there in reasonable times. This wasn't easy since I had built so many farms and pastures right up against the river that I could only put the bridge in one spot. Still, it works!
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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In case anyone is interested, this is part of the Humble Choice Membership this month.

Here's the full list to see if it's worth your $12.

Desperados III
Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl
Man of Medan
Red Solstice 2
Nebuchadnezzar
Police Stories
Evan's Remains
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Carpet_pissr »

jztemple2 wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:23 pmLots of screen shots and playtime
Now that you've played it for a week or so, what is your overall impression? Scale of 1-10?
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Hrothgar wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:21 pm In case anyone is interested, this is part of the Humble Choice Membership this month.

Here's the full list to see if it's worth your $12.

Desperados III
Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Nickelodeon All-Star Brawl
Man of Medan
Red Solstice 2
Nebuchadnezzar
Police Stories
Evan's Remains
Good lord, that is amazing. 3 of those have been on my wishlist forever, and all but one of the others look very good as well.

I do have Gamepass for PC so ME LE is included with that, but even so...just for Desperados III (which just left Gamepass), it's probably worth it. You do get to keep those, correct?
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Hrothgar »

Yes, all steam keys except Mass Effect which is an Origin key. You can also gift any keys you don't want.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Sun Mar 27, 2022 5:50 pm
jztemple2 wrote: Sat Mar 26, 2022 5:23 pmLots of screen shots and playtime
Now that you've played it for a week or so, what is your overall impression? Scale of 1-10?
I'd give it a solid 80, you can dance to it... Sorry, old American Bandstand reference :D

I'd say 8/10. I've put in almost forty hours on it and haven't seen a bug or glitch. There is a lot of repetition in that you start each mission with a bare or optionally almost bare map and you build up your city from there, but each progressive mission has new buildings and other new aspects to use and new objectives. The maps are open enough that you have plenty of options on how to proceed. There are three levels of difficulty and you can start with a bare map or what they can a historical start, basically the first level of housing.

The gameplay isn't hectic although there are a number of different processes running simultaneously like farming, ceramics making, etc. There are visual clues to indicate how well things are going or not going. There are various overlays, charts and tables for information. Those who are truly data obsessed might wish for more tools but there are certainly enough for most gamers.

Graphics are plain but functional. Some folks have complained about the edges of the map being undefined by a border so that whether you can build in a tile depends on which way you orient the map, but that's just li!e how the old games worked. There aren't as many tooltips as you might see in fancier games but again, enough to work with.

So overall I say it was definitely a good purchase for me.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

Just as an update to that 8/10, I'd like to mention that I'm not a big fan of numerical ratings. What I'd find just dandy in the gameplay or graphics might be too archaic for others. There was a posting on the Steam forum by someone who itemized six things problems with the game. None of them were IMO problems/bugs. Three were things that the poster didn't understand about the game (yet?) and the other three were design decisions. That person would probably give the game a really bad numerical rating.

Actually, for me, I'd give the game a solid 10/10. There aren't very many games, especially non-AAA titles, where I'd put in so many hours.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

OK, on to the eleven mission, the city of Dur-Sharrukin.
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Again, I'm picking Easy difficulty because I prefer to play more casually.
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Now a look at the expanded minimap and the objectives. Those population and prestige numbers are yet again much bigger than before. Again, I only have to build eleven Luxurious Residences for the aristocrats, but now I also have to build 32 Glorious Villas for the townsfolk. And besides the usual temple I have to build a palace. On the minimap there are a lot more "moist" tiles for farming. And there are Gold and Stone tiles so we can mine those.
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This is a Glorious Villa build. I have to import olive oil which I can distribute directly. And I have to grow flax which is then turned into fabric by townsfolk and which is then made into clothes by aristocrats.
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Finally the Trade screen. There are ten cities with whom I can trade, which is good since that's how you reach those big Prestige numbers. And for the very first time not a single city is currently "unlocked", in other words I don't have enough Prestige yet for them to even consider receiving a gift from me which is how you kick off trade with them. Nineveh needs me to reach a level of at least 50 Prestige, while Thebes is way out of reach at 950 Prestige.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

I mentioned up above my feelings about the game and how each map is somewhat different, presenting a different challenge each time? Looking again at the map, I notice that the land where I might consider building homes (IE, not the moist tiles which I want for farming) are almost equally split on each side of the river. For the purposes of efficiency it is best to group homes of the same type (shacks/houses, villas, residences) together to simplify logistics. On this map I might build my far more numerous shacks/house on the right side of the river and keep my villas and residences on the left.
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This is a close up look at the gold mining area, those lighter colored rocks. The 2x2 3x3 green square is the building tool with the gold mine selected. If you look closely you can see the grid lines on the map. A mine building can only be placed if all four nine tiles in a 2x2 3x3 configuration have those light colored rocks. So you can imagine that not too many mines can be placed there.
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Let me illustrate a feature (I'm not calling it a bug) that frustrates some folks who aren't used to the old Sierra Impressions Games Caesar/Pharaoh way of doing things. I've rotated the map 180 degrees. On the upper edge to the right center is a partial 2x2 3x3 green building tool with the gold mine selected. Even though you can't see all four tiles, you can build on that 2x2 3x3 tile layout. The banner on the top, with resource numbers etc, is overlaid over the map, it doesn't cut off the map. The map exists as a rectangle irrespective of the info overlays on all four sides. So sometimes you need to rotate the map in order to be able to be able to build on some tiles. I'm perfectly fine with this and apparently most folks are, but it seems to frustrate some folks.
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UPDATE: Sorry, the gold mine building is 3x3 tiles :roll:.
Last edited by jztemple2 on Mon Mar 28, 2022 11:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

One more post about the gold mine. This is the map rotated back again 180 degrees, so north is up as shown on the minimap. I've played around with the 3x3 :roll: gold mine tool as best as I can, but it isn't possible to place more than four mines. I am quite sure that the developers did this on purpose to limit the amount of gold that can be mined to force the player to make the interesting decision* about how much gold jewelry to export and how much to keep for the aristocrats.
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*Sid Meier famously mentioned that part of his design philosophy is to give players interesting decisions.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

This screenshot is something I just figured out in Nebuchadnezzar, that pressing F10 will take a screenshot of the entire map with the info overlays removed. This is my previous mission. I'm not one for prettying up a map, but there are lot of options for tiles with grasses, bushes, trees, statues and the like if you desire. As I've noted, I'm playing on Easy which eases the requirements for necessities for all types of homes. If I was playing on Normal or Hard there would be more farms, pastures, workshops etc to support the population, but the types of those buildings would be the same.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by WYBaugh »

jz, you're killin' me. You sold me on Gangsters and this looks really cool!
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

WYBaugh wrote: Tue Mar 29, 2022 3:43 pm jz, you're killin' me. You sold me on Gangsters and this looks really cool!
Come to the dark side... :D

After a day off I'm back to playing the eleven mission, the city of Dur-Sharrukin. I've had to restart it twice because I kept running out of money :roll:. However, I figured out how to stay solvent long enough to earn enough Prestige to unlock trade and start the gold rolling in. I won't post that information unless someone else buys the damn game :roll: and needs that help.

Someone on the Steam forum posted a complaint about the game, that he can't concentrate on trying to build up one type of home because the game requires you to raise all types in a balancing act. Well, that's the point of the game, silly person :wink:.

An example here in my eleventh mission. My objective include a certain number of higher levels villas (for townsfolk) and residences (for aristocrats). But to achieve those levels I need more peasants out there doing the grunt work. In this shot, I can see, near the center top, that I have 4% (-109) unemployment of peasants. Yes, it's weird that unemployed workers are shown as negatives, but that field is really "missing workers", in other words employment slots that are not filled. So a negative number is good, it means I have excess workers. Well, not all that good, those excess workers are being fed, housed and given various items but not contributing. Slackers!
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Now let's look at what will give me more peasants when I need them. Having an excess of109 workers might seem a lot, but more than that are required just to add one new farm. So I will need to plan to have more. Looks at the little window labeled "Poor House" in the below image. OK, it doesn't mean these people are in the poor house, it means the house they live in is pretty poor. Trust me, it makes more sense once you play the game. Anyway, I have level 2 housing for these peasants, they are getting milk and bread and so 70 of them live there. In the game there is never a partially filled house, so a level 2 house will always have 70 peasants, unless they all die of sickness (more later).

Now, how do I add more peasants to my city? If, again looking at the image, if I get that house pottery and well water I can raise the house to level 3 which means it will now provide 107 workers. And instead of only paying four gold in taxes it will pay thirteen. However, that means I need to set up production for pottery as well as putting down a well water building with a provider that walk a path to provide all the houses with that water. And what do those pottery production and well water buildings need to get them to work? Peasants!
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So what can I do? I can add some more houses. I've added another eleven houses above and to the right of the existing houses in a new row and added new sellers of milk and bread to walk that route to bring those houses up to level 2 right away. In the image below you can see the people streaming in.
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And here we are, more peasants! I now have just over eight hundred peasants to put to work. But things aren't going to be rosy too long. On the left side you can see a warehouse that in the previous image had plenty of milk, but now is almost empty. I may need to set up a new pasture to generate milk, then a caravanserai to transport the milk to that now almost empty warehouse. Busy, busy, busy!
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Oh, I forgot to mention an important point about consumption of goods. This is perhaps weird, but goods are not consumed by the person, but by the building. In the image below, we see at the bottom of the "Poor house" window that yearly consumption of goods is 0.75 (the tool tip at the cursor). That's because I'm playing on Easy, on Normal it would be 1.0 consumption per year of each good. This house has 1.30 bread and 1.32 milk in storage, so it is good for more than a year without being resupplied. A gametime year is about two minutes at speed 1x. Now this is a level 2 house, but if I supply pottery and well water and raise it to a level 3 house, even though there will be more workers living there, the consumption of milk and bread will not increase. This is a concession to gameplay I imagine but for me as a player I'm just fine with it.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

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Back to playing the eleven mission, the city of Dur-Sharrukin. I've reached a critical milestone. See all those blue triangles on the image? I had a high enough Prestige level to be able to contact all the cities, send gifts and open up trade. But, now that I can trade with all of them, it doesn't mean I should focus on trading with them. That will come eventually, but right now I have to work on my goals of reaching 19,000 pop and having those various homes at the proper levels.
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This is an overlay of the level of the buildings of my residences on the left, and the villas in the center and right. The residences need to be at level 3, and the villas at level 5. So that means either importing or producing a number of goods and providing services. That's what I'm going to concentrate on now.
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Reemul »

Great write up and play. I have this via Humble and will be giving it a go,
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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by jztemple2 »

Here's my completed mission 11 city. Imgur is misbehaving so I've posted it from my Google Drive. Let me know if there are any issues with viewing it.

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Re: Nebuchadnezzar - classic isometric city builder game

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Dang it. So I've been playing this for a few hours, and just not feeling it. It's just not...fun like say Pharoah/Cleopatra and Caesar (III/IV). And I'm not even sure why not, since the the mechanics are VERY similar, and maybe even improved a bit since you can route your walkers, and see shadings of areas of influence, which is super helpful, and could be super frustrating in the older games. Maybe that lack of control makes the difference, I dunno.

Also possibly the lack of variety (buildings, graphics, etc)? It's hard to say why I'm not really digging it, but it lacks...zest. :D
Last edited by Carpet_pissr on Fri Apr 01, 2022 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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