The worst part of this is that they hid it until after the mid terms , while railing on the ex president while they knew about it.
A pox on both their houses I say. If ever there was benefit to a meaningful third party this was it. It can’t be illegal for one and not illegal for the other.
Certainly charges should be rolled out to Trump and Biden if Biden is also found to be negligent. If I did this I’d be in jail- even if it was careless and a mistake.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:56 am
by $iljanus
The key difference is that Biden’s lawyers reported the documents and as far as we know are not obstructing any inquiries. If Trump gave an accurate accounting and turned over all the documents in question he wouldn’t be in possible criminal jeopardy since his non cooperation moves into the territory of possible obstruction which is criminal.
Here’s an excerpt from a NYT article that highlights the differences:
But while Mr. Trump tried to suggest a parallel, the circumstances of the Biden discovery as described appeared to be significantly different. Mr. Biden had neither been notified that he had official records nor been asked to return them, the White House said, and his team promptly revealed the discovery to the archives and returned them within a day.
“The documents were not the subject of any previous request or inquiry by the archives,” Richard A. Sauber, a special White House counsel, wrote in the statement. “Since that discovery, the president’s personal attorneys have cooperated with the archives and the Department of Justice in a process to ensure that any Obama-Biden administration documents are appropriately in the possession of the archives.”
By contrast, in 2021 the archives repeatedly asked Mr. Trump to turn over large numbers of documents it had determined were missing. He put the agency off for months, then allowed it to retrieve 15 boxes of material in early 2022, including scores of classified documents, but it was later discovered that he kept more.
Eventually, the Justice Department obtained a grand jury subpoena for documents with classification markings remaining in Mr. Trump’s possession, and a lawyer for Mr. Trump turned over several more and told the department there were none left. But an August search by the F.B.I. found 103 more marked as classified — along with thousands of other official records.
The search warrant affidavit that the Justice Department submitted suggested that Mr. Trump was under investigation for obstruction, along with possible violations of the Espionage Act, which criminalizes the willful unauthorized retention of national security documents and failure “to deliver them on demand” to a government official entitled to take custody of them.
Nuances aside, Biden is certainly in for a political shitstorm.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 3:20 am
by Jaymann
Aaaaaand there's your first Articles of Impeachment.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:39 am
by waitingtoconnect
Personally I do not think the democrats lesser of two evils play that they keep pulling is good for democracy long term.
We would expect the republicans as they currently are to prosecute Biden furiously while calling politics on trumps potential prosecution for the far more considerable offences he may have committed.
But the reality is both should be investigated and if necessary prosecuted. If I took confidential documents (let alone top secret ones) home or used my own private email server I’d be prosecuted. I’d likely be in jail or home detention unable to work while awaiting trial. It is a mockery of justice that these powerful men get away with this all the time.
Reform is clearly needed in governance in the US. The risks need to be plugged respecting the constitution but no longer using it as an excuse not to act.
One day the republicans will put up a Reagan like figure who everyone will adore and won’t polarise like Trump. Then everyone will applaud the democrats into the gulag.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:07 am
by Carpet_pissr
waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:39 am
for the far more considerable offences he may have committed.
“May”??
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:26 am
by Octavious
Reagan pretty much setup the decline of the middle class. So ya hoping for the second coming doesn't seem ideal. Profits up! Unions down! Salaries stagnant forever woooo. I seriously don't get why a non rich person would be Republican. Same asshats that hump companies that want people to get back into the office and work because God forbid there was something that made life a bit better. Tighten up those bootstraps and stop being lazy!
As for Biden. Seriously dude why? Why can you not stay out of your own way? You can add document investigation to the list of things the house will dutifully check out.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:10 am
by LordMortis
Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:26 am
I seriously don't get why a non rich person would be Republican.
This. I get the concept of why they would be. Deter moral decay. Fiscal responsibility at all levels. No police state. Then we look at the practice.
Why can you not stay out of your own way?
Again, this. He's not, from any evidence I've seen, malicious but boy does he step in it.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 10:21 am
by Octavious
Fiscal responsibility unless it's cutting taxes for the rich and the unlimited funds for missiles. We're closing in on 900 billion a year on military spending and they still pretend it's not enough. Seriously fuck off.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:59 pm
by Kraken
waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 4:39 am
But the reality is both should be investigated and if necessary prosecuted. If I took confidential documents (let alone top secret ones) home or used my own private email server I’d be prosecuted. I’d likely be in jail or home detention unable to work while awaiting trial. It is a mockery of justice that these powerful men get away with this all the time.
Indeed; what's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Circumstances should matter; Biden's docs were under lock and key and were promptly surrendered when discovered, whereas TFG was probably shopping his around. But Biden did suppress the news until after the midterms, so that's not a good look. And we don't know the quantity or nature of the docs that Biden had. An investigation is appropriate, and will hopefully find that it was an oversight that was quickly remedied.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:05 pm
by malchior
Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:59 pmBut Biden did suppress the news until after the midterms, so that's not a good look.
Sure but ultimately the right thing to do.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:10 pm
by Alefroth
At least the GOP will have to admit mishandling classified documents is bad. Hahaha...
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:12 pm
by Blackhawk
It's not a good look - but it isn't going to harm his career.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:43 pm
by RunningMn9
waitingtoconnect wrote:One day the republicans will put up a Reagan like figure who everyone will adore and won’t polarise like Trump. Then everyone will applaud the democrats into the gulag.
Everyone adored Reagan?
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:44 pm
by RunningMn9
Octavious wrote:Fiscal responsibility unless it's cutting taxes for the rich and the unlimited funds for missiles. We're closing in on 900 billion a year on military spending and they still pretend it's not enough. Seriously fuck off.
Hey, some of us exist on getting a taste of that $900B. Keep your grubby hands off it.
waitingtoconnect wrote:One day the republicans will put up a Reagan like figure who everyone will adore and won’t polarise like Trump. Then everyone will applaud the democrats into the gulag.
Octavious wrote:Fiscal responsibility unless it's cutting taxes for the rich and the unlimited funds for missiles. We're closing in on 900 billion a year on military spending and they still pretend it's not enough. Seriously fuck off.
Hey, some of us exist on getting a taste of that $900B. Keep your grubby hands off it.
You punks are the reason I get "What is that explosion?" messages on FB once a month.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:21 pm
by Kraken
Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:12 pm
It's not a good look - but it isn't going to harm his career.
No, but Whataboutism will help TFG. "Everybody does it" was one of his lines.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:23 pm
by Zaxxon
Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:10 pm
At least the GOP will have to admit mishandling classified documents is bad. Hahaha...
In a rational world, this would be the end of it--if what Biden did is worthy of any sort of action, then what Trump did is clearly worthy of disqualification from any elected office ever again.
But we live in this world, so it'll be impeach-Biden-but-restore-Trump over this, somehow.
I say all this while believing
Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:59 pmAn investigation is appropriate, and will hopefully find that it was an oversight that was quickly remedied.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 5:28 pm
by Jaymann
And the Repugnicans will rush it through then gin up a second offense so they can claim Florida Man was not the only president to be impeached twice.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:44 pm
by hepcat
waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:16 am
It can’t be illegal for one and not illegal for the other.
Trump has been getting away with illegal shit for years and NOW you're upset?
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 7:53 pm
by Smoove_B
So....I guess a President really can't just declassify things with their mind?
Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 1:10 pm
At least the GOP will have to admit mishandling classified documents is bad. Hahaha...
In a rational world, this would be the end of it--if what Biden did is worthy of any sort of action, then what Trump did is clearly worthy of disqualification from any elected office ever again.
But we live in this world, so it'll be impeach-Biden-but-restore-Trump over this, somehow.
I say all this while believing
Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:59 pmAn investigation is appropriate, and will hopefully find that it was an oversight that was quickly remedied.
waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:16 am
It can’t be illegal for one and not illegal for the other.
Trump has been getting away with illegal shit for years and NOW you're upset?
No how he’s managed to Teflon his way out of every insane act and use it for marketing and fund raising is appalling. He needs to be stopped but in order to do so the democrats can’t just be Republican-lite.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:01 pm
by hepcat
“Lite” being the key word.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:09 pm
by $iljanus
Innocent mistake...or clumsy FSB operation
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:14 pm
by Isgrimnur
How many copies of The Sims were found?
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:33 pm
by Jeff V
Octavious wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:26 am
I seriously don't get why a non rich person would be Republican.
Guns, fuck yeah!
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:48 pm
by RunningMn9
Octavious wrote:You punks are the reason I get "What is that explosion?" messages on FB once a month.
waitingtoconnect wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 12:16 am
It can’t be illegal for one and not illegal for the other.
Trump has been getting away with illegal shit for years and NOW you're upset?
No how he’s managed to Teflon his way out of every insane act and use it for marketing and fund raising is appalling. He needs to be stopped but in order to do so the democrats can’t just be Republican-lite.
Agreed. Both sides need to meet the same standards and deserve to be investigated when they don't. That doesn't mean that Biden's alleged negligence = TFG's deliberate theft...but if Biden DID secretly steal classified docs, we need to know about it. Our guy doesn't get a pass because he's our guy.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2023 11:50 pm
by Freyland
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Jan 10, 2023 9:14 pm
How many copies of The Sims were found?
Aides to President Joe Biden have discovered at least one additional batch of classified documents in a location separate from the Washington office he used after leaving the Obama administration, according to a person familiar with the matter.
Since November, after the discovery of documents with classified markings in his former office, Biden aides have been searching for any additional classified materials that might be in other locations he used, said the source, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to provide details about the ongoing inquiry.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 6:57 pm
by malchior
I wonder if Garland is "relieved" by this turn of events. He probably did not want to prosecute Trump and now has an off-ramp that'll be politically acceptable. Sorry I mean he is above the politics but he needs to balance prosecutorial interests. Yeah that's the ticket.
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:04 pm
by Smoove_B
It's all 4D chess by the Democrats to get the GOP to admit that it's wrong when Presidents are found to have top secret paperwork in their personal possession. After they admit it, there's just no way they can deny what TFG did was worse. It can't fail!
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 7:41 pm
by Blackhawk
I wonder how often this has happened in the past? Presidents/VPs who reviews thousands of documents forget to turn a particular batch over, then discover it a few years later (or are informed) and send them back where they belong? I can't imagine that it is all that uncommon, and was likely just business as usual. At least before Trump took it to absurd extremes, and his supporters want something to (somehow) simultaneously exonerate Trump and attack Biden by equating them.
"It doesn't matter that I burned down a town on purpose - my opponent burned down a bird house by accident! They're the same thing!"
Re: Biden document scandal
Posted: Wed Jan 11, 2023 8:56 pm
by malchior
Yeah these are very different incidents and the details matters. Biden's folks have apparently played it the right way. There are concerns obviously. This happened 6 days before the mid-terms and I just saw an interesting panel discussion on tv where someone noted it was odd that lawyers were searching the offices in the first place. Maybe out of an abundance of caution but it has enough there to make it inconvenient to say the least.
