OBSOLETE -- [WW] Danger Zone! -- OBSOLETE

[bb2112]

FWIW, I was willing to vouch for you today.

I don't know how anyone would have trusted Trig after his heavy handed play. Unless you are Malory and you KNEW he wasn't a wolf, then I could see it.

[Holman]

Just to clarify: I don't think we're going forward with this game. It's restart or BSG.

[bb2112]

Just to clarify: I don't think we're going forward with this game. It's restart or BSG.

Well, if that is the case, go ahead and reveal and let's restart.

[bb2112]

Wait, unless there are any other guesses first. Sorry.

[bb2112]

Can I participate in this discussion even though I'm dead? FWIW I have not been spoiled on anything.

I don't see why you can't guess.

[Grundbegriff]

FWIW, I was willing to vouch for you today.

I don't know how anyone would have trusted Trig after his heavy handed play. Unless you are Malory and you KNEW he wasn't a wolf, then I could see it.

I am indeed Malory, and I did scan triggercut after yesterday's antics. So my choice of target is another thing that was affected by the confusion over roles.
Scans were repeatedly OBE in this game. First, I scanned Newcastle, but then y'all killed him. So that was useless. Then I scanned El Guapo, and we know the half-life on that rich intel.

[Lassr]

Lassr (didn't like his last vote on Moliere. The village should not have pulled that trigger.)

I didn't either...now.

[Lassr]

FWIW, I was willing to vouch for you today.

I don't know how anyone would have trusted Trig after his heavy handed play. Unless you are Malory and you KNEW he wasn't a wolf, then I could see it.

I am indeed Malory, and I did scan triggercut after yesterday's antics. So my choice of target is another thing that was affected by the confusion over roles.
Scans were repeatedly OBE in this game. First, I scanned Newcastle, but then y'all killed him. So that was useless. Then I scanned El Guapo, and we know the half-life on that rich intel.

interesting...guess those kills would have kept you from revealing sooner than you would have liked. I was think Scoop may have been Malory..

[Grundbegriff]

I had more or less given up on living to paydirt with a scan. I had been aiming for ambiguity so I'd seem normal and avoid a night kill, but by the third day my priority was to step forward and self-identify as Malory before some Assassin had a chance to claim the role in my absence.

[Holman]

Just a note on my thinking about the game roles:

I'm kind of proud (let me know if I deserve it) of the Archer-Barry mirror. Both can survive a first kill, which pits them directly against each other in a thematic way. A lynch on Archer basically forces Barry (or another assassin) to counter-claim, while a lynch on Barry almost forces Archer into the open when Barry claims Archer.

It only now occurs to me that I've left another ambiguity in the rules: what happens when Archer decides to rampage the player the assassins decide to assassinate?

[Newcastle]

FWIW, I was willing to vouch for you today.

I don't know how anyone would have trusted Trig after his heavy handed play. Unless you are Malory and you KNEW he wasn't a wolf, then I could see it.

I am indeed Malory, and I did scan triggercut after yesterday's antics. So my choice of target is another thing that was affected by the confusion over roles.
Scans were repeatedly OBE in this game. First, I scanned Newcastle, but then y'all killed him. So that was useless. Then I scanned El Guapo, and we know the half-life on that rich intel.

you....scanned....me? sniff, sniff...i got tears here man...tears! Wait why did you scan me? I laughed when I got spoilered and saw that Grund had scanned me. What luck. Little did he realize I was bout to go all secret service on our specials and jump on the lynch grenade.

[Lassr]

Just a note on my thinking about the game roles:

I'm kind of proud (let me know if I deserve it) of the Archer-Barry mirror. Both can survive a first kill, which pits them directly against each other in a thematic way. A lynch on Archer basically forces Barry (or another assassin) to counter-claim, while a lynch on Barry almost forces Archer into the open when Barry claims Archer.

It only now occurs to me that I've left another ambiguity in the rules: what happens when Archer decides to rampage the player the assassins decide to assassinate?

I am fine with the two misses, one for each team. I would change the one that has the power to fool the seer. I do have that ability in my game but usually I have a coroner so they have a chance to find out who is who.

[Holman]

Conway fools the seer, which is a big bonus for the assassin team. I guess it would make sense just to make him a vanilla wolf.

I've also got Cheryl, who provides a random role-scan to the wolves. Is that too powerful too?

[Lassr]

Conway fools the seer, which is a big bonus for the assassin team. I guess it would make sense just to make him a vanilla wolf.

I've also got Cheryl, who provides a random role-scan to the wolves. Is that too powerful too?

It is basically a wolf power but I like it. You could balance it by giving her an additional power of one free scan to find out the true role of a dead player.

[Holman]

Conway fools the seer, which is a big bonus for the assassin team. I guess it would make sense just to make him a vanilla wolf.

I've also got Cheryl, who provides a random role-scan to the wolves. Is that too powerful too?

It is basically a wolf power but I like it. You could balance it by giving her an additional power of one free scan to find out the true role of a dead player.

Interesting idea!

Then the problem for Cheryl is that she has to use her scan before she is killed. More crucially, it's only valuable to the village if she makes it public (thus exposing herself and offering the wolves her bonus) before she is assassinated.

[Lassr]

Conway fools the seer, which is a big bonus for the assassin team. I guess it would make sense just to make him a vanilla wolf.

I've also got Cheryl, who provides a random role-scan to the wolves. Is that too powerful too?

It is basically a wolf power but I like it. You could balance it by giving her an additional power of one free scan to find out the true role of a dead player.

Interesting idea!

Then the problem for Cheryl is that she has to use her scan before she is killed. More crucially, it's only valuable to the village if she makes it public (thus exposing herself and offering the wolves her bonus) before she is assassinated.

Yep, so it is all about timing. Do that too early and you help the wolves, do it late and it probably doesn't matter. Of course if she is about to be lynched you hope she has already scanned. You could make the power available 24 hours a day instead of only night just to give a little advantage over an early lynch

[Grundbegriff]

Wait why did you scan me?

Because I know you're a survivor!

[Grundbegriff]

Conway fools the seer, which is a big bonus for the assassin team. I guess it would make sense just to make him a vanilla wolf.

I've also got Cheryl, who provides a random role-scan to the wolves. Is that too powerful too?

Only if you don't counterbalance it with something. No need to throw out the interesting "powers", but they cannot tilt too gravely in one direction.

Edit: what Lassr said, which is better than what I said.

[bb2112]

Scoop, are you Archer or Barry? You were playing so out there like you were daring the village to string you up. Or force choke you to death.

[Holman]

All right, I'm going to go ahead and deliver the spoiler. READ AT YOUR OWN RISK.

Spoiler:

ISIS Specials:
Archer Scoop20906
[DEAD] Lana Chaosraven
Malory Grundbegriff
Cheryl Triggercut

ISIS Regulars:
Cyril Remus West
[DEAD] Pam Newcastle
[DEAD] Krieger El Guapo
[DEAD] Ray Unagi
Woodhouse Vorret
[DEAD] Brett Moliere

Assassins:
Barry Lassr
Katya RMC
Conway bb2112

SPOILER Thoughts on likely outcomes:

Spoiler:

The odds against ISIS weren't entirely as bad as they appeared.

If we continued, RMC would be the likely Day 3 lynch--in which case (because Lana and Katya would then both be dead) Scoop/Archer would gain Rampage, a single night kill. A wise Scoop would use it immediately on Night 3. Plus he knows that Lana is gone, so he can't mistake Barry's survival for Lana's protection. The assassins don't know Lana is dead.

With 7 players remaining (5 villagers/2 assassins) at Night 3, a lot would depend on Archer's choice that night. I believe the assassins already suspected Scoop of being Archer. His survival power was still unused, however, so hitting him would risk wasting a shot.

Day 4 would have dawned with one of the following populations (good/evil), with the next move a lynch, not an assassination:

5/2 (No night death as the assassins invisibly wound Archer and Archer invisibly wounds Barry. Scoop/Archer now knows Barry.)
4/2 (One dead non-Archer and a wounded Barry. Scoop knows Barry and knows that his own survival is intact.)
5/1 (Assassins wound Archer, Archer kills Conway. This has the interesting result of seeming to prove bb2112/Conway good.)
4/2 (One dead non-Archer, Archer holds his fire for the next night.)
4/2 (Assassins wound Archer, Archer mistakenly kills a teammate.)
4/1 (One dead non-Archer, Archer kills Conway. Villagers know that one of the two dead was an assassin.)
3/2 (One dead non-Archer, Archer mistakenly kills a teammate.)

What permutations/implications am I missing?

[Grundbegriff]

So... er... who was who?

1) Scoop20906 ???
2) bb2112 ???
3) El Guapo (ISIS grunt?)
xxx 4) Newcastle [lynched on Day 1] (ISIS grunt)
5) Moliere (ISIS grunt)
6) Grundbegriff (ISIS Malory)
7) RMC ???
xxx 8) Chaosraven [Headsploded on Night 1] (ISIS grunt)
9) Remus West ???
10) Triggercut (ISIS Tunt)
11) Lassr ???
xxx 12) Unagi [Teletyped on Night 0] (ISIS grunt)
13) Vorret ???

[Grundbegriff]

Someone owes someone a coke.

bb I suspected. Lassr I didn't. Had no idea what to make of RMC's claim. Clearly I had no feel for this session. But props and thanks to Holman for making it happen! There was fun to be had even amidst the bafflement.

[RMC]

Holman, I would have claimed Lana, and with no counter to that, I would have been safe. We got lucky with killing CR, who happened to be Lana.

Scoop says I am the Devil, and this would not have been any different, only needed to provide doubt on my specialness...

[El Guapo]

Well, I had 1.5 wolves in my sight. Technically I had two of the wolves on my list, but as alternatives (RMC or Lassr), for what that's worth.

And let this be a reminder to everyone to not let someone claim special without specifying a role!

[bb2112]

We had Scoop pegged as Archer and we thought Chaos was hinting at Lana which was why we took him out early. At least we thought that until Moliere's weird claim that he was Tunt but when he died the assassins didn't get any intel. Then we thought maybe he was Lana trying to hide. His outrage at being killed seemed very genuine. We noticed Grund was not playing like a typical Grund, but didn't figure out he was Malory until he said he was going to defend Trig.

So Grund, what gave me away as an assassin?

[Grundbegriff]

So Grund, what gave me away as an assassin?

Nothing at all. It was just an intuition.

[Lassr]

We had Scoop pegged as Archer

Kudos to my teammates for not going with Scoop as the kill, I was thinking he was Malory because he was pretty damned convinced day 1 that I was an assassin. I thought he had scanned me but could not come out day 1. He was special though. The thought crossed my mind that he could be Archer and was trying to get himself targeted by faking Malory.

We thought Chaos might have been Lana early but as BB said we then thought it may have been Moliere. His play was so odd, now we know why.

RMC was going to claim Lana but we would have had to rethink after the Moliere reveal so it did affect our play.

Grund was on our list of kills last night, Grund, Remus, El Guapo, Scoop. I wanted to wait on Grund and Remus since they were nearing their shelf life. Plus I wanted to keep that RMC-Remus connection alive.

The other thought crossed my mind to have RMC fake Malory and claim Remus was his night 1 scan. Totally believable but I don't think he would have survived the challenge today. If it was the next day maybe.

[Scoop20906]

We had Scoop pegged as Archer and we thought Chaos was hinting at Lana which was why we took him out early. At least we thought that until Moliere's weird claim that he was Tunt but when he died the assassins didn't get any intel. Then we thought maybe he was Lana trying to hide. His outrage at being killed seemed very genuine. We noticed Grund was not playing like a typical Grund, but didn't figure out he was Malory until he said he was going to defend Trig.

So Grund, what gave me away as an assassin?

I was leaning Grund and Lassr. I had no third suspect. RMC you devilish bastard fooled me again. I totally trusted Trig play yesterday thats why I jumped behind the vote.

Yes I was Archer and itching to be able to use my power.

[Lassr]

I totally trusted Trig play yesterday thats why I jumped behind the vote.

Me too!

Imagine it from our side though, we were totally confused. Trig was adamant that Moliere was a wolf and we were sitting there going no he isn't but whatever.

[Scoop20906]

It would have been interesting to see what would happen once RMC claimed his role. Also, I think we need a special rule for RMC that he can never again just claim special without giving his role because RMC IS THE DEVIL!

[RMC]

It would have been interesting to see what would happen once RMC claimed his role. Also, I think we need a special rule for RMC that he can never again just claim special without giving his role because RMC IS THE DEVIL!

Man, I am so honest in real life that I am squeaky clean. But in these wolf games, I always seem to be able to get the cool roles/framed/whatever that I can play around with.

I am sure with no counter to me being Lana, that I would have been able to not be a kill for at least one night.

[Remus West]

I woould have been after Lassr for voting the kill on Moliere without pressuring RMC. RMC living through the night put him on the needs to be lynched list and bb2112 had been there since day 1. Really should have pushed harder for him early.

[LordMortis]

I figured with Scoop's opening volley of talking to himself, he was Barry and Other Barry.

I'm shocked that Remus still lives.

[Lassr]

I woould have been after Lassr for voting the kill on Moliere without pressuring RMC. RMC living through the night put him on the needs to be lynched list and bb2112 had been there since day 1. Really should have pushed harder for him early.

I was leery about that 2nd kill vote, but went ahead and did it thinking some may not think an assassin would hang himself out there so obviously, I knew some would give me grief. I had a good story for not pressuring RMC that I thought could help me make it toward the end game. Then if I got lynched it would be no big deal since I survived the first attempt.

A lot of that dynamic changed when Moliere revealed his screw up. Triggercut was no longer a valid lynch target. We thought we could get him lynched so killed El Guapo instead.

[Vorret]

Ah! I knew RMC was a sneaky evil person.

Sorry for not typing much I'm epic sick for the past few days.

[Newcastle]

So when are the new roles coming out? C'mon got to play man. Got to scoop someone. Got them shakes. Need. To. Scoop. Soon! I kid of course, I dont ever intend on scooping someone every again unless i have a damn good reason...like i know they aren't who they say they are, or if i just feel like it. Feel me?

[bb2112]

I woould have been after Lassr for voting the kill on Moliere without pressuring RMC. RMC living through the night put him on the needs to be lynched list and bb2112 had been there since day 1. Really should have pushed harder for him early.

I really wanted to kill you instead of El G last night. You had been hounding me since day 1 and I knew you wouldn't let Lassr's last vote on Moliere go. Plus RMC was already wavering back and forth as a potential lynch. I had you pegged as the most dangerous person to team evil at this point. Lassr and RMC still wanted to play cat and mouse with you though, so we chose El G instead.

BTW, the 3 day thing I said on Grund, I would have said whether I was a wolf or not, and besides, El G echoed the same sentiment. I hope there was something else that was tipping off your spidey sense other than that.

[bb2112]

Feel me?

Uh, I would rather not. Thanks though.

[Holman]

So when are the new roles coming out? C'mon got to play man. Got to scoop someone. Got them shakes. Need. To. Scoop. Soon! I kid of course, I dont ever intend on scooping someone every again unless i have a damn good reason...like i know they aren't who they say they are, or if i just feel like it. Feel me?

OK, who is IN?

[Lassr]

I am In.