If there were any doubts about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s political intentions, his unprecedented press conference on Wednesday should put them all to rest. As he made abundantly clear during his doddering reading of a prepared statement that repeatedly contradicted itself, Mueller had no interest in the equal application of the rule of law. He gave the game, and his nakedly political intentions, away repeatedly throughout his statement...
...There’s no longer any doubt about who Robert Mueller is or why he conducted himself the way he did. As abominable as his press conference was, we should in many ways be thankful that Mueller so willingly displayed for all to see his disdain for basic rules of prosecutorial conduct, his total lack of self-awareness, and his naked desire to stick it to Trump.
The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The Federalist's take today:
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- pr0ner
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Doddering? Really? All I see is some faux high brow Trumpaloo bullying. If things ever go back to normal, the "conservatives" who carried water like these chumps deserve to be cast into the wilderness. Maybe literally. They can go build their market utopia in the woods somewhere.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 3:49 pm The Federalist's take today:
If there were any doubts about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s political intentions, his unprecedented press conference on Wednesday should put them all to rest. As he made abundantly clear during his doddering reading of a prepared statement that repeatedly contradicted itself, Mueller had no interest in the equal application of the rule of law. He gave the game, and his nakedly political intentions, away repeatedly throughout his statement...
...There’s no longer any doubt about who Robert Mueller is or why he conducted himself the way he did. As abominable as his press conference was, we should in many ways be thankful that Mueller so willingly displayed for all to see his disdain for basic rules of prosecutorial conduct, his total lack of self-awareness, and his naked desire to stick it to Trump.
- El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
No doubt they were even more upset by Comey's press conference in 2016.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Wed May 29, 2019 3:49 pm The Federalist's take today:
If there were any doubts about Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s political intentions, his unprecedented press conference on Wednesday should put them all to rest. As he made abundantly clear during his doddering reading of a prepared statement that repeatedly contradicted itself, Mueller had no interest in the equal application of the rule of law. He gave the game, and his nakedly political intentions, away repeatedly throughout his statement...
...There’s no longer any doubt about who Robert Mueller is or why he conducted himself the way he did. As abominable as his press conference was, we should in many ways be thankful that Mueller so willingly displayed for all to see his disdain for basic rules of prosecutorial conduct, his total lack of self-awareness, and his naked desire to stick it to Trump.
Black Lives Matter.
- Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Fox is suffering a complete breakdown in message discipline today.
Their pundits keep alternating between "Mueller reiterated total exoneration" and "Mueller's statement was Deep State treason!"
Their pundits keep alternating between "Mueller reiterated total exoneration" and "Mueller's statement was Deep State treason!"
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
the doublethink is working just as planned. The ministry for truth needs to make sure that for those that one truth doesn't reach, the other truth must suffice.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Wow, Trump just totally slammed Mueller as a completely conflicted ego-bruised man who has had it out for him since day 1.
When asked if Russia got Trump elected..... Ohh boy! did that piss Trump off. He knows it. It kills him inside every day.
When asked if Russia got Trump elected..... Ohh boy! did that piss Trump off. He knows it. It kills him inside every day.
- Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
LOL
the quotes from this are going to be great.
"To me it's a dirty word. Impeachment is a dirty, filthy, disgusting word, and it has nothing to do with me"
lol
the quotes from this are going to be great.
"To me it's a dirty word. Impeachment is a dirty, filthy, disgusting word, and it has nothing to do with me"
lol
- Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
and I'm now remembering this is reality...
I'm not laughing any more.
sucks.
I'm not laughing any more.
sucks.
-
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Trump slipped this morning and said Russia helped get him elected. However, that's ok because he had nothing to do with it.
- Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Mueller gave a press appearance to reiterate that, despite a huge amount of evidence detailed in the report, DOJ policy forbids indicting a sitting president, which it very clearly does.
Today, after Mueller has resigned, Barr is out there saying "Nah, he could have pushed charges but didn't, therefore NO OBSTRUCTION. Also, DOJ is not a [dick tone]ADJUNCT TO CONGRESS[/dick tone]."
Fuck Trump and all his fucking lying toadies.
Impeach. Impeach. Impeach.
Today, after Mueller has resigned, Barr is out there saying "Nah, he could have pushed charges but didn't, therefore NO OBSTRUCTION. Also, DOJ is not a [dick tone]ADJUNCT TO CONGRESS[/dick tone]."
Fuck Trump and all his fucking lying toadies.
Impeach. Impeach. Impeach.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
-
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
What really pisses me off is right above your text. CBS uses the fucking lie in the headline. Of course, they lie. Every institution in the country apparently bends over backward to give them an incentive to do it or otherwise help them.
- El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
But of course, Barr's smart enough to not outright lie, but rather to intentionally strongly mislead. Because it is true that Mueller could have reached a conclusion on obstruction. Both in the personal "do I think it happened?" sense (which Mueller almost certainly did), and in the sense that Mueller could have directly written "The President committed obstruction of justice, and the only reason that we didn't charge him is because of DOJ policy as to a sitting president."
Instead Mueller said, "DOJ policy does not allow for the charging of a sitting president, and we were bound by that policy" "we didn't reach a formal conclusion on obstruction of justice" and "if we reached the conclusion that the President did not commit a crime, we would have said so." He's putting those out and implicitly saying "connect the fucking dots you goddamn morons", but he's not willing to formally draw a line connecting them because that would essentially be formally accusing the president of a crime (which he thinks he can't do). Barr is taking advantage of that and connecting the dots in a crazy way that serves the President, as "he chose not to draw a formal conclusion on whether the President committed obstruction, therefore he essentially found the President innocent".
It's basically lying, but it's the way that white color criminals lie, by putting together half-truths and self-serving conclusions but avoiding falsifiable statements of hard fact.
Black Lives Matter.
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
As Pelosi keeps building up the foundation, expect more mistakes like this as the pressure builds.malchior wrote:Trump slipped this morning and said Russia helped get him elected. However, that's ok because he had nothing to do with it.
The danger, of course, is that the very stable genius will completely lose it in areas other than Twitter.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I 100% get the angle that Mueller is coming from in this and it frustrates me because he's clearly one of 'the good guys' and what he has to say is very influential in America and with the electorate. Maybe he could say 'yeah I think he committed a crime but couldn't charge him based on bullshit, err DOJ policy' now that he's a private citizen?? That's my hope but I fear Mueller has too much respect for the system to do that. But I'll submit that in addition to the American people failing themselves by electing the ppl we have elected over the last 50 years, the system is clearly failing us as well and when that's true you have to break some rules to get things fixed. So say what's on your mind Mueller, please!
I do think the pressure has gone up to begin impeachment hearings but my hope is that it's because the idea is beginning to resonate more in the people and not just on the Hill. Last poll I saw still said something like 56% were opposed to impeachment..maybe in another poll next week that's down to 50%? I hope.. Lots of hoping in this post. I believe it's been said before that's not a strategy.
I do think the pressure has gone up to begin impeachment hearings but my hope is that it's because the idea is beginning to resonate more in the people and not just on the Hill. Last poll I saw still said something like 56% were opposed to impeachment..maybe in another poll next week that's down to 50%? I hope.. Lots of hoping in this post. I believe it's been said before that's not a strategy.
OR
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
cry in a corner that the world has come to a point where you have to pay for imaginary shit.
-Hiccup
- Blackhawk
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Well, we wanted a professional who doesn't play politics heading the investigation. That's what we got. Now, if someone could just get him drunk enough to let his professionalism slip, just a tiny bit, for one interview.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
When the Watergate impeachment hearings began public support for them was in the teens. By the time Nixon resigned support was in the 70s. Luckily for the people in that era the politicians then weren't afraid of standing up for the nation. Damn the odds and polls. It was about what was right. It is beginning to appear that we are not so lucky.
- El Guapo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Yeah, but I think there are pretty material differences between then and now in terms of what the public knew about the underlying conduct at the edge of impeachment proceedings, and in the state of the media (e.g., no conservative media echo-chamber). Like, a TON of stuff has come out already, such that the big bombshells in the Mueller report were really already known beforehand, and the big bombshells have only mildly impacted Trump's approval ratings.malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:10 pm When the Watergate impeachment hearings began public support for them was in the teens. By the time Nixon resigned support was in the 70s. Luckily for the people in that era the politicians then weren't afraid of standing up for the nation. Damn the odds and polls. It was about what was right. It is beginning to appear that we are not so lucky.
So yeah sure, it's *possible* that impeachment hearings would move the needle and suddenly removal would start polling in the 60s or 70s. But is it likely? I really don't think so.
I'm fine with starting impeachment proceedings (especially after what Mueller said). But I just don't think we should be under any illusions that they're likely to succeed in removing Trump - I'd say that there's about a 1% chance *at best*.
Black Lives Matter.
- Blackhawk
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
During Watergate, we didn't have a political party whose electorate had redefined their whole identities around Nixon being right, to whom him being wrong represented such a profound admission of personal failure.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Pyperkub
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Well, we did, but they didn't have a platform for it, and saner heads prevailed.
It took decades for the racist South to coalesce under a new banner.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I believe impeachment is a congressional duty. The Mueller Report makes a solid case for it (even redacted), and obstruction is not the only offense to consider. Given the facts we know--and impeachment begins with investigations that will surely reveal further offenses--I don't see how it's avoidable. The House shouldn't ignore what's in front of them.El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:16 pmYeah, but I think there are pretty material differences between then and now in terms of what the public knew about the underlying conduct at the edge of impeachment proceedings, and in the state of the media (e.g., no conservative media echo-chamber). Like, a TON of stuff has come out already, such that the big bombshells in the Mueller report were really already known beforehand, and the big bombshells have only mildly impacted Trump's approval ratings.malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 1:10 pm When the Watergate impeachment hearings began public support for them was in the teens. By the time Nixon resigned support was in the 70s. Luckily for the people in that era the politicians then weren't afraid of standing up for the nation. Damn the odds and polls. It was about what was right. It is beginning to appear that we are not so lucky.
So yeah sure, it's *possible* that impeachment hearings would move the needle and suddenly removal would start polling in the 60s or 70s. But is it likely? I really don't think so.
I'm fine with starting impeachment proceedings (especially after what Mueller said). But I just don't think we should be under any illusions that they're likely to succeed in removing Trump - I'd say that there's about a 1% chance *at best*.
I know the Senate won't convict. But that's a different question.
I find it hard to believe (I am still an optimist, perhaps stupidly) that many Americans who already disapprove of Trump will watch the House lay bare the case on TV for months and then let a Mitch McConnell power-play persuade them that they should stay home on election day. As for Republican turnout, I'm not sure there's a lot more of it to be gained. The cultists will vote regardless.
We have a criminal president, and the House must do its duty even if the Senate won't.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Smoove_B
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Every time I feel hopeful or think something might be done, I'm reminded that a significant number of Americans approved McConnell's blocking of Garland and only want more conservative judges on the bench, because America. That right there should have been the alarm - McConnell's refusal to hold a hearing. I absolutely believe getting away with that emboldened him (and the GOP) and there's no going back now. Procedure? Rules? Protocol? Nope. Try and stop us - that's the attitude (and it's working).Holman wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 4:09 pm I find it hard to believe (I am still an optimist, perhaps stupidly) that many Americans who already disapprove of Trump will watch the House lay bare the case on TV for months and then let a Mitch McConnell power-play persuade them that they should stay home on election day.
I want to believe process will prevail - truly. But it's getting difficult to think other. Mainly depressing, but also difficult. I'm left to believe that the average voter doesn't care about political accountability. Instead, it's a simple "Does this impact me directly? No? Don't care."
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- LordMortis
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- Zarathud
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I spoke with someone today who called Trump and the Mueller Report "entertainment."
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
- Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Honest question:
How much control does McConnell actually have over a Senate trial?
From what I've read, the Senate holds a trial when the House tells it too. This might be the only moment McConnell can affect--I suppose he could simply (and plainly unconstitutionally) refuse to begin the proceeding. But then that itself would become the story, and that's hardly an exoneration.
When the trial begins, it is presided over not by McConnell but by John Roberts. That would seem to preclude McConnell just bolting for an up-or-down vote. Members of the House appointed by the Pelosi (or by House vote?) serve as the equivalent of prosecutors, and Trump would appear as a defendant with his own lawyers.
As far as I can tell, the senators are a jury, which gives them little room for grand-standing or diversionary tactics. (Lindsey Graham doesn't get to speak.) The trial would unfold as Pelosi's managers (Nadler, Schiff?) vs Trump's legal goons (Giuliani??) in a courtroom setting, complete with cross-examination of witnesses by both sides (Cohen, Flynn, DonJr, Stone, etc).
These aren't at all good optics for Trump, and it's not something McConnell can run/ruin like a Senate vote.
How much control does McConnell actually have over a Senate trial?
From what I've read, the Senate holds a trial when the House tells it too. This might be the only moment McConnell can affect--I suppose he could simply (and plainly unconstitutionally) refuse to begin the proceeding. But then that itself would become the story, and that's hardly an exoneration.
When the trial begins, it is presided over not by McConnell but by John Roberts. That would seem to preclude McConnell just bolting for an up-or-down vote. Members of the House appointed by the Pelosi (or by House vote?) serve as the equivalent of prosecutors, and Trump would appear as a defendant with his own lawyers.
As far as I can tell, the senators are a jury, which gives them little room for grand-standing or diversionary tactics. (Lindsey Graham doesn't get to speak.) The trial would unfold as Pelosi's managers (Nadler, Schiff?) vs Trump's legal goons (Giuliani??) in a courtroom setting, complete with cross-examination of witnesses by both sides (Cohen, Flynn, DonJr, Stone, etc).
These aren't at all good optics for Trump, and it's not something McConnell can run/ruin like a Senate vote.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Unagi
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
If you are trying to turn me on, it’s working.
- Jaymann
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
He will probably come up with some 18th century procedural mumbo jumbo that nobody will understand, but the Republican cunts will just vote Aye.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
- Smoove_B
- Posts: 54926
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
He paid a lawyer to take care of a porn star that he raw-dogged while his third wife was pregnant with their child. Optics? No one apparently cares a single bit.
Mitch McConnell is an oozing hemorrhoid on our political foundation as a country. He should have been pilloried for not holding a confirmation hearing for Garland but for whatever reason the democrats just shrugged their shoulders and gave him a pass. We're now a hair-width away from President Truck Nutz getting a third Supreme Court Justice nomination. The damage he's done over the last two years is insane. The damage his other two nominations are going to do for generations is unfathomable. A third?
Goddammit, where's the scotch?
Maybe next year, maybe no go
- Grifman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
But none of that matters. This isn't going to encourage more Democrats to come out, they are already fired up. The only thing this will do is fire up Trump's base, just as Clinton's impeachment fired up his base. They have proven immune to facts, no matter how bad they are for Trump - they believer him over everything else. The election of 2020 is far more important than an impeachment trial that will result in Trump being acquitted and his base fired up. There is no upside to impeachment, and a lot of potential downside.Holman wrote: ↑Fri May 31, 2019 5:12 pm Honest question:
How much control does McConnell actually have over a Senate trial?
From what I've read, the Senate holds a trial when the House tells it too. This might be the only moment McConnell can affect--I suppose he could simply (and plainly unconstitutionally) refuse to begin the proceeding. But then that itself would become the story, and that's hardly an exoneration.
When the trial begins, it is presided over not by McConnell but by John Roberts. That would seem to preclude McConnell just bolting for an up-or-down vote. Members of the House appointed by the Pelosi (or by House vote?) serve as the equivalent of prosecutors, and Trump would appear as a defendant with his own lawyers.
As far as I can tell, the senators are a jury, which gives them little room for grand-standing or diversionary tactics. (Lindsey Graham doesn't get to speak.) The trial would unfold as Pelosi's managers (Nadler, Schiff?) vs Trump's legal goons (Giuliani??) in a courtroom setting, complete with cross-examination of witnesses by both sides (Cohen, Flynn, DonJr, Stone, etc).
These aren't at all good optics for Trump, and it's not something McConnell can run/ruin like a Senate vote.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
- GreenGoo
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
So if facts don't matter, how do you win the election? Negative campaigning isn't going to work, according to the facts don't matter position. So... suppress republican votes? I mean, you're saying business as usual for 2020 as far as I can tell, because. Ok. Good luck. We're all rooting for you.
- Blackhawk
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The upside is not setting the precedent of 'the President can get away with anything as long as he makes the response politically inconvenient.' We can't do much to Trump. What we can do, though, we have to do.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
What are you talking about? Clinton was impeached by the House in 1998 and narrowly acquitted by the Senate in February 1999. George W Bush won the election the very next year, and didn't lose his House majority until the midterm elections in his second term. That doesn't sound like impeachment was a big setback for the Republicans to me.Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:12 am
But none of that matters. This isn't going to encourage more Democrats to come out, they are already fired up. The only thing this will do is fire up Trump's base, just as Clinton's impeachment fired up his base. They have proven immune to facts, no matter how bad they are for Trump - they believer him over everything else. The election of 2020 is far more important than an impeachment trial that will result in Trump being acquitted and his base fired up. There is no upside to impeachment, and a lot of potential downside.
--milo
- Grifman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Turn out your voters and don't give additional incentive for the opposition voters to turn out. Sorry but that's just the way it is. Trump has a 90% approval rating with Republicans with all that he has done - do you really think anything else is going to change their opinion now?GreenGoo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:18 am So if facts don't matter, how do you win the election? Negative campaigning isn't going to work, according to the facts don't matter position. So... suppress republican votes? I mean, you're saying business as usual for 2020 as far as I can tell, because. Ok. Good luck. We're all rooting for you.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
- Grifman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Clinton wasn't running for re-election as Trump will be. Impeachment boosted Democrats opinion of Clinton, like impeachment would do so for Trump. They already have a persecution complex, there's no reason to give them more incentive to turn out in 2020.milo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:51 amWhat are you talking about? Clinton was impeached by the House in 1998 and narrowly acquitted by the Senate in February 1999. George W Bush won the election the very next year, and didn't lose his House majority until the midterm elections in his second term. That doesn't sound like impeachment was a big setback for the Republicans to me.Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:12 am
But none of that matters. This isn't going to encourage more Democrats to come out, they are already fired up. The only thing this will do is fire up Trump's base, just as Clinton's impeachment fired up his base. They have proven immune to facts, no matter how bad they are for Trump - they believer him over everything else. The election of 2020 is far more important than an impeachment trial that will result in Trump being acquitted and his base fired up. There is no upside to impeachment, and a lot of potential downside.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
- Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I think you'll disagree, but I believe that an impeachment inquiry will bring all the crimes detailed in the Mueller Report (and more than those) into the light in ways that no other process can do.Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:12 am
But none of that matters. This isn't going to encourage more Democrats to come out, they are already fired up. The only thing this will do is fire up Trump's base, just as Clinton's impeachment fired up his base. They have proven immune to facts, no matter how bad they are for Trump - they believer him over everything else. The election of 2020 is far more important than an impeachment trial that will result in Trump being acquitted and his base fired up. There is no upside to impeachment, and a lot of potential downside.
Clinton is a bad example because the case was so limited. People rightly concluded that impeachment was GOP overreach. There really wasn't much to base it on.
That's not the case here. Done right, a Trump impeachment inquiry will be a true reckoning with Trump's obstruction, secret dealings, official lies, financial crimes, and who knows what else. I don't think even the currently impeachment-averse feel that there's no There there.
Mueller's eight-minute TV appearance did more to raise awareness of Trump's obstruction than his 450 printed pages did. Even half the media seemed surprised at what he said.
Imagine what weeks and weeks of hearings would do.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Skinypupy
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I'm still not convinced that matters any more. Given the evidence already in play, anyone who is inclined to believe that crimes were committed already believes so at this point. For the undecided or the MAGA's, all Trump has to do is scream "FAKE NEWS", and they'll will simply nod in agreement. Not sure how additional information would change that dynamic.
Turn the entire thing into a drone of background noise that people will eventually tune out, most likely.Imagine what weeks and weeks of hearings would do.
When darkness veils the world, four Warriors of Light shall come.
- Holman
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Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
Disagree. "FAKE NEWS" is for the MAGA, not the undecideds. Trump's disapprovals and the 2018 results suggest this strongly.Skinypupy wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:01 amI'm still not convinced that matters any more. Given the evidence already in play, anyone who is inclined to believe that crimes were committed already believes so at this point. For the undecided or the MAGA's, all Trump has to do is scream "FAKE NEWS", and they'll will simply nod in agreement. Not sure how additional information would change that dynamic.
Most of the undecideds don't see the news until it becomes a spectacle everyone is talking about. 450-page reports can't do that the way televised hearings can.
Then nothing is to be done?Turn the entire thing into a drone of background noise that people will eventually tune out, most likely.Imagine what weeks and weeks of hearings would do.
Last edited by Holman on Sat Jun 01, 2019 8:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- Combustible Lemur
- Posts: 3961
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2005 10:17 pm
- Location: houston, TX
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I'm becoming more convinced that the current stalemate is Pelosi and Nadler doing the equivalent of not blowing the load early. People are pissed off but there are enough democrats calling for impeachment that the anger is focused primarily on leadership.
Meanwhile, public and private hearings with released transcripts are happening every couple days. Public court losses for Trump are beginning to stack. All the indictments and guilty verdicts are cycling back into the news. (Flynn just yesterday was back in the news.) Barr is slightly buckling which gets blown up in coverage.
And we get closer to E-Day.
As the fervor builds, impeachment "should" be inevitable. I think Pelosi and Nadler know this and want to release it when the distance between impeachment hearings and election day is too short for them to cycle through the investigation, non-trial and acquittal.
It would take an act of God for the GOP to find trump guilty. And an acquittal would be bad, especially if there is a long news cycle behind it to magnify the crowing.
If the numbers continue to shift or build momentum it may be sooner rather than later. But I like the current strategy. Don't give Republicans anything to talk about, just keep racking up the stacks of public evidence and news stories. I'm actually curious if dem leadership knew that mueller was going to do the press conference. Was that his concession to agree to a closed door testimony? His rebuttal?
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Meanwhile, public and private hearings with released transcripts are happening every couple days. Public court losses for Trump are beginning to stack. All the indictments and guilty verdicts are cycling back into the news. (Flynn just yesterday was back in the news.) Barr is slightly buckling which gets blown up in coverage.
And we get closer to E-Day.
As the fervor builds, impeachment "should" be inevitable. I think Pelosi and Nadler know this and want to release it when the distance between impeachment hearings and election day is too short for them to cycle through the investigation, non-trial and acquittal.
It would take an act of God for the GOP to find trump guilty. And an acquittal would be bad, especially if there is a long news cycle behind it to magnify the crowing.
If the numbers continue to shift or build momentum it may be sooner rather than later. But I like the current strategy. Don't give Republicans anything to talk about, just keep racking up the stacks of public evidence and news stories. I'm actually curious if dem leadership knew that mueller was going to do the press conference. Was that his concession to agree to a closed door testimony? His rebuttal?
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Is Scott home? thump thump thump Crash ......No.
- Pyperkub
- Posts: 23791
- Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 5:07 pm
- Location: NC- that's Northern California
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
I don't see Impeachment boosting Trump. The difference between Clinton and Trump is that the Clinton Impeachment became all about getting Clinton for a BJ.Grifman wrote:Clinton wasn't running for re-election as Trump will be. Impeachment boosted Democrats opinion of Clinton, like impeachment would do so for Trump. They already have a persecution complex, there's no reason to give them more incentive to turn out in 2020.milo wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:51 amWhat are you talking about? Clinton was impeached by the House in 1998 and narrowly acquitted by the Senate in February 1999. George W Bush won the election the very next year, and didn't lose his House majority until the midterm elections in his second term. That doesn't sound like impeachment was a big setback for the Republicans to me.Grifman wrote: ↑Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:12 am
But none of that matters. This isn't going to encourage more Democrats to come out, they are already fired up. The only thing this will do is fire up Trump's base, just as Clinton's impeachment fired up his base. They have proven immune to facts, no matter how bad they are for Trump - they believer him over everything else. The election of 2020 is far more important than an impeachment trial that will result in Trump being acquitted and his base fired up. There is no upside to impeachment, and a lot of potential downside.
As long as the democrats keep the focus on what the underlying crimes Trump and associates are accused /guilty of (obstructing investigations into a cover up of Russian and other foreign interference in our elections, as well as other violations of felony laws) then the conservative media bubble should continue to crack.
The ultimate, underlying target of the proceedings needs to include discrediting the lies and misinformation which have enabled this threat to our democratic republic.
As we all know, Trump is the (current, and hopefully last) culmination of the subordination of American values in the GOP to a mindless hatred of all things not serving the GOP, through policy and propaganda.
The Impeachment needs to shine a monstrously bright light on the hideous things the current GOP has been doing to gain and keep power at any cost.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Grifman
- Posts: 21376
- Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 7:17 pm
Re: The Trump Investigation(s) Thread
The simple fact is that currently the majority of Americans are opposed to impeachment. You can’t even consider it until you have a majority. To undertake impeachment without a majority of Americans supporting it is political foolishness.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton