LGBT issues thread (was Supreme Court to hear same-sex marriage cases)

[Jaymann]

What a bunch of cunts!

[Unagi]

top of a page too.

[Alefroth]

Poster child for inbreeding here-

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/201 ... t-vpx.wvva

Around 1:20 is where it gets downright chilling.

[Daehawk]

The lack of brains in our leaders is startling these days.

[hepcat]

The whole time idiots like that are in the spotlight, they're frantically thinking in the back of their minds "Did I clear my internet search history this morning!?!?".

[Remus West]

The whole time idiots like that are in the spotlight, they're frantically thinking in the back of their minds "Did I clear my internet search history this morning!?!?".

[Blackhawk]

The "Idea-ology" of LGBTQ (but not gays) can be cured by swimming?

[Alefroth]

By not swimming is the impression I got.

[em2nought]

Darned that homophobic Trump, look what he's been up to in his spare time. How dare "he" try to end the criminalization of homosexuality in foreign countries. Orange man bad!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna973081

[gbasden]

Darned that homophobic Trump, look what he's been up to in his spare time. How dare "he" try to end the criminalization of homosexuality in foreign countries. Orange man bad!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna973081

I'll give credit where credit is due - good for the administration for pushing for that. It will be interesting to see if they only use it as a talking point against Iran, or if they actually seek to broadly push the matter against Trump's best friends, the Saudis.

[Default]

Darned that homophobic Trump, look what he's been up to in his spare time. How dare "he" try to end the criminalization of homosexuality in foreign countries. Orange man bad!
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna973081

I'll give credit where credit is due - good for the administration for pushing for that. It will be interesting to see if they only use it as a talking point against Iran, or if they actually seek to broadly push the matter against Trump's best friends, the Saudis.

But who will think of the MEvangelicals?

They aren't going to like that, lol.

[GreenGoo]

Thank God he found something productive to do with all that executive time.

Now would it kill him to look closer at domestic policies where he might actually be able to affect change?

In any case, given the last two years of empty suit leadership, call me when he gets some results. I'm long past caring what he has to say in front of a camera.

At least now we know em2 thinks NBC is a trustworthy news source.

No president has done more for the LGBT community than him. He's the biggest LGBT the world has ever seen. That's some sort of Nobel peace award, right?

In all seriousness, call me when this campaign makes for meaningful change. I'll begrudgingly give him props then.

[hepcat]

I'll give credit where credit is due - good for the administration for pushing for that. It will be interesting to see if they only use it as a talking point against Iran, or if they actually seek to broadly push the matter against Trump's best friends, the Saudis.

Doubtful. He only wants to agitate those he doesn’t like. If you’ve said nice things about him, you can do whatever you want.

This is about Iran, period. He’ll do jack shit beyond bitching about them. He’s already shown he’s fine with Saudi Arabia murdering people.

[em2nought]

At least now we know em2 thinks NBC is a trustworthy news source.

I read it someplace else and then looked for a secondary source that y'all wouldn't turn your noses up at.

[stessier]

It's still illegal in Russia, isn't it? That would be an interesting place to kick off his initiative.

[Holman]

It appears that Trump had no idea his administration was trying to decriminalize homosexuality around the globe.

[GreenGoo]

That can't be true. There he is holding the flag at the news conference where he announced the existence of the campaign. Presumably that's why the picture was posted. Right? I mean, right?

That little scamp, em2, always with the practical jokes. You got us em2. Well done. I wonder what antics em2 will get up to next? Let's watch...

[Moliere]

LGBT group drops Martina Navratilova over transgender comments

In a newspaper column this week the 18-time grand slam singles champion referred to trans women as men who “decide to be female”, adding that allowing them to compete with women who were assigned female at birth is “cheating and unfair”.

It's an interesting dilemma since a man who gets through puberty will have a huge physiological advantage over women who were born with the double X. Joe Rogan gets all kinds of shit for saying men should not be able to declare themselves a woman and then go fight women in the Octagon. Is it any wonder that a transgender woman is breaking all the female weightlifting records?

[GreenGoo]

Society is just learning that these questions exist, let alone have answers for them. We're living in a time of transition and many people have their own ideas about how things should be.

As for me, none of this affects me directly so I'll happily sit by the sidelines as the various factions duke it out to finalize how society will handle this.

My instinct is that we separate physical competition by gender for reasons only tangentially related to their reproductive organs, so it makes sense to come up with acceptable limits.

We as a society can absolutely address you as the gender of your preference. That doesn't magically alter your physiology. And yes, I understand that the physiology for many trans people is a grey area as well. Just because grey exists doesn't mean black is white and vice versa.

As I said, answering these questions is an ongoing process that I prefer to spectate rather than participate in. Good luck, all involved including society.

[Jaymann]

I have to side with Navratilova and Rogan on this. Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this? Not a good look.

[GreenGoo]

I have to side with Navratilova and Rogan on this. Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this? Not a good look.

Like, 1/2 a century ago? Sorry, 3+ decades ago.

It's almost like things change over time. It's not so much that I disagree with you or them, or agree with you or them, it's that ancient history is not a precedent that I like to use for modern decisions. Particularly when that ancient history was unbelievable steroid abuse the likes of which I couldn't imagine. Like, Nazi Germany human experimentation levels of abuse. *shudder*

Edit: Reading the history, it seems that Andreas Krieger was born (assigned at birth?) a woman and through heavy (and unknowingly to her/him now) chemical abuse by German authorities began to show masculine traits. She admits that she felt gender dystopia prior to the drugs, so it doesn't seem like the drugs were the sole reason for her transgender...ness?

i.e. she started as a woman and competed as one. While her case is relevant to the overall discussion of transgenders and gender competition, it's *not* an example of a genetic male identifying and competing as a female. So I wouldn't hold him up as evidence in support of Rogan et al.

[Moliere]

How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?






A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.

[GreenGoo]

How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?






A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.

Yawn.

Call me when society figures it out. I have barely superficial awareness of the nature of transgender or the science or the psychology behind it. You can hold up as many examples as you want, those examples aren't the defining case on the entirety of transgender and transgenders in competition.

It's not like there is a clear line that you can draw and everything on one side of it is x, and everything on the other side of it is y (see what I did there? *wink, wink*) and that's the end of it. Trying to elicit outrage is a poor replacement for a coherent argument based on the science and nature of transgender.

I've already said I come down on the side that there should be limits. I just don't have the specialized knowledge required to be confident in my opinion or even understand what those limits should or even could be. You're not helping me feel more confident about it by posting these cases.

Separately and for the record, I've repeatedly attempted (although not this time) to watch Rogan's show, and failed every time. I can't get through a single episode because I don't find him compelling, interesting or at times even reasoning. So I kinda wish people would stop bringing him up as relevant to anything, because he's not. It's like bringing Oprah Winfrey in as a subject matter expert.

[Max Peck]

Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this?

Actually, I don't. What I do remember is that East Germany was notorious for using anabolic steroids to enhance their athletes' performance as a matter of state policy.

[Daehawk]

Ill buck a trend and post on bathrooms. Ive never liked the group bathroom thing. Im not Roman. Ive always used the single person ones when I could over the years. Best ones were at the malls. I have a shy bladder and having to use a multi person one is hell sometimes especially when I really had to go bad. So Id like to say why cant stores just make multiple single person restrooms?? Houses have 1-4 so why do stores all have 0-1? Make around 5-8 and for any gender to use. How hard could that be?

[Moliere]

8 bathrooms per store? That's a lot of floor sales space to accommodate your shy bladder.

[Moliere]

Separately and for the record, I've repeatedly attempted (although not this time) to watch Rogan's show, and failed every time. I can't get through a single episode because I don't find him compelling, interesting or at times even reasoning. So I kinda wish people would stop bringing him up as relevant to anything, because he's not. It's like bringing Oprah Winfrey in as a subject matter expert.

I posted that specific 18 minute clip of Rogan's show because he is talking about this exact question and answers you about the physiology. I would also argue that Rogan is not Oprah when it comes to fighting. He is a multiple discipline black belt (Taekwondo and jiu-jitsu) who also has the job of being an MMA commentator. Which means he knows a thing or two about fighting. So on this subject I think his view is valid and worth consideration.

[Daehawk]

8 bathrooms per store? That's a lot of floor sales space to accommodate your shy bladder.

Id venture less than two full sized separate gender bathrooms if you count the ladies have at least 6 stalls and the men 3 stalls and 4 troughs.

[Zarathud]

There are all sorts of shenanigans that happen in a store bathroom even where there is danger of discovery. From bad behavior with toilet paper/poop to theft or sex/rape. The bad behavior worsens if there's no one looking. It's not just a space/economics issue but a safety/theft/sanitation one.

[GreenGoo]

I posted that specific 18 minute clip of Rogan's show because he is talking about this exact question and answers you about the physiology. I would also argue that Rogan is not Oprah when it comes to fighting. He is a multiple discipline black belt (Taekwondo and jiu-jitsu) who also has the job of being an MMA commentator. Which means he knows a thing or two about fighting. So on this subject I think his view is valid and worth consideration.

I guess I'm trying to say that I don't give a shit what Rogan says about anything. It's not specific to this thread as people have posted clips from his show in the past as well on other subjects (although I'm fairly sure most if not all of those times were you), I'm just using this thread to finally write it out loud. I don't for a second believe he has any relevant knowledge on the subject of transgender, barring degrees in medicine, physiology or psychology (plus any number of other relevant advanced degrees) with years as a practicing doctor, scientist or therapist that I am not aware of. At best he could provide testimony as to what he's witnessed about specific events.

I couldn't care less what he has to say about transgender people in the ring. It could be valid. It could be invalid. It could be literally anything at all, I just don't care. Where society finally settles on this subject will not be decided by an MMA commentator, no matter how many black belts or disciplines he's trained in.

If my response seems unreasonably harsh, it's because I don't give a shit what Rogan says, which I may not have made clear before. Hopefully I've rectified that.

[Max Peck]

FWIW, the IOC has already established eligibility guidelines for transgender athletes.

In this spirit, the IOC Consensus Meeting agreed the following guidelines to be taken into account by sports organisations when determining eligibility to compete in male and female competition:

1. Those who transition from female to male are eligible to compete in the male category without restriction.
2. Those who transition from male to female are eligible to compete in the female category under the following conditions:
   1. The athlete has declared that her gender identity is female. The declaration cannot be changed, for sporting purposes, for a minimum of four years.
   2. The athlete must demonstrate that her total testosterone level in serum has been below 10 nmol/L for at least 12 months prior to her first competition (with the requirement for any longer period to be based on a confidential case-by-case evaluation, considering whether or not 12 months is a sufficient length of time to minimize any advantage in women’s competition).
   3. The athlete's total testosterone level in serum must remain below 10 nmol/L throughout the period of desired eligibility to compete in the female category.
   4. Compliance with these conditions may be monitored by testing. In the event of non-compliance, the athlete’s eligibility for female competition will be suspended for 12 months.

[Fireball]

How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?






A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.

People don’t “turn trans” or “decide [they’re] now a woman”. The questions related to how to accommodate trans athletes in traditionally gender-based sporting competitionsare complicated to answer, and impossible to discuss when transphobic rhetoric is thrown about so casually.

[Z-Corn]

There are all sorts of shenanigans that happen in a store bathroom even where there is danger of discovery. From bad behavior with toilet paper/poop to theft or sex/rape. The bad behavior worsens if there's no one looking. It's not just a space/economics issue but a safety/theft/sanitation one.

People OD a lot in those one-man-show bathrooms too.

[Jaymann]

Remember when the East Germans where chastised for pulling this?

Actually, I don't. What I do remember is that East Germany was notorious for using anabolic steroids to enhance their athletes' performance as a matter of state policy.

My memory was faulty, thanks for the correction.

[hepcat]

I think Fireball hit the nail on the head. The question of fairness due to physiology is a logical one, but it gets buried by those who want to view it through the lens of prejudice and downplay it as ridiculous, instead of trying to address it as a serious question.

<hopefully I'm paraphrasing Fireball correctly. If not, please let me know>

As for the restroom subject, personally, I'm not a fan of same sex bathrooms. I'm too old and too indoctrinated by my generation's view on modesty to feel comfortable with it. As long as they maintain a men's room though, I'm perfectly fine with the existence of any other types.

[Jaymann]

Starbucks has multi-sex bathrooms, when it's open you just go in and lock it.

[hepcat]

That's a little different than a free for all of women and men doing their business at the same time. I'm shy.

[Enough]

Thank you for this.

How about a 52 year old man who decides he's now a woman and wants to play women's college basketball?






A man who turns trans after 30 years and then fights women in MMA is literally a man beating the shit out of women. This is not fair physiologically and it's a combat sport where these women are getting beat up by a man.

People don’t “turn trans” or “decide [they’re] now a woman”. The questions related to how to accommodate trans athletes in traditionally gender-based sporting competitionsare complicated to answer, and impossible to discuss when transphobic rhetoric is thrown about so casually.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using Tapatalk

[LawBeefaroni]

Starbucks has multi-sex bathrooms, when it's open you just go in and lock it.

Or don't lock it. Whatevs.

[hepcat]

I leave it wide open so that everyone enjoys the magic that I make!