The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

[Holman]

It's insane that anyone--let alone our national media--is treating January 6 and the conspiracy fueling it as anything but what it is.

[Apollo]

Well said. Agree.

Yep. That said, it’s not like those people grow on trees.

I know it sounds obvious, but there are plenty of folks in the Democratic party that don't want to consider a candidate who appeals to the center, which a successful populist candidate in the Democratic party would have to do in order to win a national election.

I don't think a Charismatic candidate has to be as smart as Clinton or Obama to succeed (though that would be nice) if they have Charisma and a connection with the public. I think Reagan and W both showed how they could simply be a convenient path to let the real Masterminds (Dick Cheney and co.) in the door.

I do think the Ideal Candidate needs some knowledge and savvy, I certainly wouldn't want a Trump-like idiot at the top of the ticket and Liberals are naturally drawn to Policy Wonks, so maybe you pick one as a VP if the main guy doesn't have it. But I fear a heavy dose of Political Correctness is coming our way, at least in the national party, which is going to be even more anti-populist than the folks who have been running the show in recent decades, so I have real fears about our ability to win national elections in the future.

[stessier]

Having read the indictment now, one thing I don't really understand is this statement in the beginning, paragraph 3:

The Defendant had a right, like every American, to speak publicly about the election and even to claim, falsely, that there had been outcome-determinative fraud during the election and that he had won.

It feels like there's a real tension between that statement and then paragraph after paragraph of allegations about Trump's stupid, false Tweets and statements.

I'm not sure why that statement is in there. He's not "like every American." He was the freaking President. His speaking publicly about the election and making knowingly false claims that he won seems like an important element of the charged crimes of defrauding and obstructing and disenfranchising.

The first 6 or so minutes of this video do a good job explaining the difference. TLDR version: You can lie all you want - as long as it's not an element in furtherance of a crime...in this case an alleged criminal conspiracy. They aren't punishing the speech (as first amendment protections would be problematic due to the political nature), they are punishing the conspiracy.

[malchior]

This is an absolutely *inane* arguement that he knows with 100% certainty would never happen. But that's the point. This is not acting as a lawyer. This is him acting in a parallel role as a political agitator for Trump. It isn't a stretch to presume that when he calls West Virginia more "characteristics of the American people" that this is a dog whistle about "real America".

[LordMortis]

Much more diverse than what? The Daughters of the Confederacy?

[Kraken]

In this case, "more diverse" means whiter.

[Kurth]

There is no basis for a venue change. None.

[Blackhawk]

More diverse:







And how many judges in West Virginny were Trump appointees? Enough to make it worth another roll of the dice?

[Grifman]

[malchior]

Good news. Trump isn't show any signs his team is even going to offer a reasonable defense.

NBC News

If former President Donald Trump committed a “technical violation of the Constitution,” it doesn’t mean he necessarily broke any criminal laws, John Lauro, Trump’s criminal defense attorney, argued on NBC’s “Meet the Press."

In an interview Sunday, Lauro appeared to signal how he’d defend the former president in a trial that will stem from the four-count criminal indictment returned last week by a federal grand jury that had been examining Trump’s possible role in the Jan. 6 Capitol riot and his alleged attempts to overturn the 2020 election.

Pressed by NBC's Chuck Todd on Trump's alleged pressure campaign to get former Vice President Mike Pence to reverse the election, Lauro claimed that Trump and Pence had merely engaged in a disagreement over whether a vice president could constitutionally take actions that could lead to a presidential election being overturned.

“A technical violation of the Constitution is not a violation of criminal law," Lauro contended, calling it "just plain wrong" to suggest that Trump had pressed Pence to break the law.

[Carpet_pissr]

Heh:

“Trump calls for recusal of judge in Jan. 6 case ‘on very powerful grounds’”

Say what you will about the man, but you can easily recognize his speech, even without context.

He uses adjectives so…strangely, it’s almost like an ESL situation. They aren’t wrong, per se, most of the time, but they just read/sound “off”.

[ImLawBoy]

All we need is a Charismatic Candidate who isn't a Left Wing Radical and we could beat Trump easily.

The problem is, any candidate who gets nominated will be labeled a Left Wing Radical, facts be damned. They're calling Biden a Left Wing Radical (why are we capitalizing this? ) fercryingoutloud.

[malchior]

[Octavious]

That case is dead in the water with that judge. She's openly trying to subvert the process on her own. It's insane and it will work. Thankfully there are other cases, but any "victory" feeds the false prosecution narrative. Awesome.

[Alefroth]

I don't think it's dead in the water. No matter how much it gets delayed, it won't go away and will always be hanging over his head.

[malchior]

Everything I've heard today indicates this appears at best to be a pretty significant error by Cannon. It's apparently normal to introduce supplemental evidence from grand juries from other jurisdictions. And also normal for there to be multiple grand juries looking at aspects of a case. The crux of the matter is that the government can only file motions under seal when they involve a grand jury because they have to protect the integrity of the grand jury in that other jurisdiction. So what I'm hearing is that DOJ will politely inform her that she has made an error and then if she continues they'll be pretty much compelled to go to the 11th.

[Blackhawk]

go to the 11th.

I google a lot of lawyerese here, but this one, unfortunately, just returns Spinal Tap references. Can you offer a translation?

[malchior]

go to the 11th.

I google a lot of lawyerese here, but this one, unfortunately, just returns Spinal Tap references. Can you offer a translation?

The 11th circuit appeals court. Larger context, during the investigatory and document recovery process her decisions were overturned by the 11th - twice. Much like that case (and others - see below) some folks are saying it looks like she is making fundamental errors again. Based on her demonstrated acumen it seems reasonable to expect the prosecution will need to do it all over again if she is making errors.

Why are people assuming errors? During the previous Trump case she made errors and notably a story popped up a few days ago @ NBC indicating she made major errors in a trial a couple of months ago. She didn't swear in the jury and violated some of the rules that protect a basic right to a public trial. Good grief. This is what happens when you select for ideology instead of competence.

The judge in former President Donald Trump’s upcoming trial over his handling of classified documents made two key errors in a June trial, one of which violated a fundamental constitutional right of the defendant and could have invalidated the proceedings, according to legal experts and a court transcript.

Florida-based U.S. District Judge Aileen Cannon closed jury selection for the trial of an Alabama man — accused by federal prosecutors of running a website with images of child sex abuse — to the defendant’s family and the general public, a trial transcript obtained by Reuters showed. A defendant’s right to a public trial is enshrined in the U.S. Constitution’s Sixth Amendment.

Cannon, a 42-year-old former federal prosecutor appointed by Trump to the bench in 2020 late in his presidency, also neglected to swear in the prospective jury pool — an obligatory procedure in which people who may serve on the panel pledge to tell the truth during the selection process. This error forced Cannon to re-start jury selection before the trial ended abruptly with defendant William Spearman pleading guilty as part of an agreement with prosecutors.

[Kurth]

go to the 11th.

I google a lot of lawyerese here, but this one, unfortunately, just returns Spinal Tap references. Can you offer a translation?

This infographic is your friend: United States Federal Court System by the Constitutional Accountability Center.

It's my go to whenever I'm trying to remember which courts are in which circuit.

[Jaymann]

go to the 11th.

I google a lot of lawyerese here, but this one, unfortunately, just returns Spinal Tap references.

That made me chuckle.

[Blackhawk]

go to the 11th.

I google a lot of lawyerese here, but this one, unfortunately, just returns Spinal Tap references. Can you offer a translation?

This infographic is your friend: United States Federal Court System by the Constitutional Accountability Center.

It's my go to whenever I'm trying to remember which courts are in which circuit.

Which would have helped had I known we were discussing Federal circuit courts. I was trying to figure out how the 11th Amendment applied.

[Grifman]

[GreenGoo]

Until we know what the sentence is, I'm not getting my hopes up.

I'm ignoring most news on drumpf and am waiting patiently for the final word on the matter.

And no one has been convicted of anything, yet.

*patiently waits*

[Isgrimnur]

There will never be a final word on him.

[GreenGoo]

There will never be a final word on him.

from the justice system.

[Zaxxon]

There will never be a final word on him.

from the justice system.

Highly likely he'll die first.

[Isgrimnur]

And then comes the probate fights and the wars of succession.

[Zaxxon]

Too many indictments, too few lawyers, too many TV appearances?

[Zaxxon]

Aaanndd, denied.

[Octavious]

Ya the DC courts are not playing around. Slightly different than FL. I can't believe they have the balls to try and move the case to West Virginia.

[Kurth]

This is the case to watch.

[Kraken]

This is the case to watch.

I feel like we need separate threads for the various cases.

[Kurth]

This is the case to watch.

I feel like we need separate threads for the various cases.

Who are you and what did you do with Kraken? That is NOT your avatar image!

[malchior]

She definitely seems to be setting the tone with regards to the time table. Trump's amateur hour lawyers look like they are going to be taken to task if they play games with this judge.

[Isgrimnur]

This is the case to watch.

I feel like we need separate threads for the various cases.

Who are you and what did you do with Kraken? That is NOT your avatar image!

He is now Kryten.

[Kurth]

She definitely seems to be setting the tone with regards to the time table. Trump's amateur hour lawyers look like they are going to be taken to task if they play games with this judge.

Ten to one he's going to be looking for new lawyers soon. These guys are going to get shredded. Trump is going to be pissed. And he's probably going to stop paying them. They'll be gone before too long, and he'll move even lower down the food chain of lawyers. And he was already getting close to the end of the bench . . .

[Kraken]

Who are you and what did you do with Kraken? That is NOT your avatar image!

I'm watching and enjoying Red Dwarf again (free on Tubi) and Kryten is me. Kraken...Kryten...have you ever seen us in the same room?

[Grifman]

[GreenGoo]

Posting this here, because I'm too lazy to see if there's a more appropriate thread.


I have no idea if this guy's definition of fascism is perfectly accurate, but if it is, Drumpf is more than willing to be a fascist to get and stay in (and return to) power.

[Scraper]

Posting this here, because I'm too lazy to see if there's a more appropriate thread.


I have no idea if this guy's definition of fascism is perfectly accurate, but if it is, Drumpf is more than willing to be a fascist to get and stay in (and return to) power.

Beau of the Fifth Column did a video on this 2 years ago but he used 14 characteristics of a fascist rather than 6.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1M6CXhUS-x8